SGC & Zeenut Grading

[Chesbro41]

Got some cards back from SGC today, overall fast service but was surprised at one card. I was upgrading my Bob Meusel Zeenut card to one in better condition. It came back as trimmed.

I measured the card and it equals my other one on the left (in fact it's taller top to bottom)... so I can only guess they rejected it because the coupon was missing? Seems strange to me or maybe they have some new graders there? Anyone else experienced this?

Dave

[familytoad]

Maybe it’s the angle of the photo but the top of card looks wider than the bottom of the card.
So perhaps it is width not height that is causing the rejection?

[Chesbro41]

Card measures the same width top and bottom.
I just noticed some (not all) Zeenuts come up “without coupon” when you search their card database to list what you are sending.

Bob Meusel does not so I didn’t send it it be graded without coupon. Maybe that’s what happened. I wouldn’t have known that.

[nolemmings]

Do they consider it trimmed if the bottom edge was "improved" long after issuance, e.g. if a fresh new edge was put on the card to square off what had been a partial coupon remnant?

[brianp-beme]

The bottom example looks narrower than the SGC graded one), and I even got out my ruler and measured the computer screen, and it measured almost 1/16" narrower!

Brian

[familytoad]

Most Zeenuts don’t have their original coupon.
Those that do still have the coupon get a healthy premium.

SGC still grades them, usually numerically unless they have too much wear.
Zeenuts are infamous for low grades overall. A lot of Zeenuts are graded A for authentic.

I guess what I’m saying is...If the TPG claims that it’s trimmed, it’s not due to missing coupon.

[Chesbro41]

Here's a scan of the card in question. Both top and bottom measure exactly 1 inch 3/4 width.

[bcbgcbrcb]

To me, the bottom left corner looks unnatural. Maybe it's the left edge alongside it or bottom edge but that whole area just doesn't look right. Also, the entire length of both edges look stunningly perfect although wear overall is minimal and a very nice card, those side edges are absolutely perfect, maybe too perfect?

[Chesbro41]

The thing is, the card is longer top to bottom than the 1.5 I got graded, so if it’s trimmed on top/bottom it still has more cardboard than the one they gave a number too.

On the sides, I hear you but when I place the card over the graded one it lines up perfectly. The edges line up same width. I also can’t detect any abnormalities along the edges when I place them against a straight line ruler.

It’s a head scratcher for me.

[Oscar_Stanage]

Originally Posted by Chesbro41

The thing is, the card is longer top to bottom than the 1.5 I got graded, so if it’s trimmed on top/bottom it still has more cardboard than the one they gave a number too.

On the sides, I hear you but when I place the card over the graded one it lines up perfectly. The edges line up same width. I also can’t detect any abnormalities along the edges when I place them against a straight line ruler.

It’s a head scratcher for me.

are the Zeenut cards all exactly the same size?
it is definitely possible for a larger T206 to be trimmed, while a smaller is not.

[Pre War Starter]

That bottom, left 1/4 has definitely been trimmed.
The edges might measure, but they don’t all the way across the bottom, I guarantee.
It’s so in-evenly trimmed I almost got sea sick looking at the wave.

[rhettyeakley]

They are idiots. It is as simple as that.

The first card was “bent and then torn” by the original owner, the second was trimmed with scissors by the original owner. There is no reason to give the second one an Authentic grade other than the grader doesn’t know what they are looking at. You were meant to trim the coupon off so if they are designating that the coupon is off it shouldn’t matter what method of removal was used.

[cammb]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

They are idiots. It is as simple as that.

The first card was “bent and then torn” by the original owner, the second was trimmed with scissors by the original owner. There is no reason to give the second one an Authentic grade other than the grader doesn’t know what they are looking at. You were meant to trim the coupon off so if they are designating that the coupon is off it shouldn’t matter what method of removal was used.

+1. Zeenuts are meant to be cut. Call SGC and send it back to be regraded.

[Chesbro41]

That’s my point. Almost all Zeenuts are cut at the bottom. They had a grader that missed it.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Chesbro41

Here's a scan of the card in question. Both top and bottom measure exactly 1 inch 3/4 width.

Your card does not look trimmed. However, a good portion of my 1919 Zeenuts do measure about 1/16" wider (close to 1-13/16"), while others measure about 1-3/4". Sometimes Zeenut cards just seem to have narrower machine cuts, and I have noticed that more with the 1919 issue. Perhaps SGC (mistakenly) identified it as trimmed just because of its narrower width.

Brian

[philliesphan]

As a tabbed Zeenut collector, I can tell you that I've dis-entombed about 85% of the tabbed Zee's that I've bought over the years. Except for key cards / HOFers or really really nice condition examples, I think Zeenuts present so much better without the weight and bulk of the plastic entombment.

It is clear at any rate that the grading companies have been consistently inconsistent in how they grade Zeenuts.

[Exhibitman]

PSA and SGC will A you if a hand-cut card looks like it was cut at different times



I cleaned up a ragged little kid tear at the top and got A'd for it.

[Knoxy24]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

They are idiots. It is as simple as that.

The first card was “bent and then torn” by the original owner, the second was trimmed with scissors by the original owner. There is no reason to give the second one an Authentic grade other than the grader doesn’t know what they are looking at. You were meant to trim the coupon off so if they are designating that the coupon is off it shouldn’t matter what method of removal was used.

I agree....SGC is pumping out submissions, but in my experience they their quality control is out the door. Cards like this are being looked at by people who have no clue what they are. I recently submitted some cards to them that weren't "mainstream" issues. I was disappointed with the results. I personally will no longer be using SGC.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Knoxy24

I agree....SGC is pumping out submissions, but in my experience they their quality control is out the door. Cards like this are being looked at by people who have no clue what they are. I recently submitted some cards to them that weren't "mainstream" issues. I was disappointed with the results. I personally will no longer be using SGC.

+1 I have held this view since they incorrectly graded my Yum Yum twice. I asked about it and Dave F looked like a deer in headlights. I think he was the one doing the grading. Clueless on that one. And then there are the fake overprints they like to grade and the Fro Joys they won't grade as they don't have the expertise. And then there are the mistakes on hand cut designations on series that were not hand cut. Dismal.



.

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

PSA and SGC will A you if a hand-cut card looks like it was cut at different times



I cleaned up a ragged little kid tear at the top and got A'd for it.

That was what I was wondering in post #4-- would a subsequent clean up to the bottom edge of the Zeenut explain the grade. If so I would think the card should still generate an "A" instead of being rejected as trimmed.