19th Century Cards

[GaryPassamonte]

With all the fanfare about high card prices, not much has happened with the prices of 19th century cards. Are they being left behind? Is it the "grading" aspect, with most 19th century cards being in lower grades? Is it a lack of interest in the early history of the game?

[bgar3]

Gary, my opinion is, yes to both. Before I read this I posted something similar to your post on the memorabilia side.

[tedzan]

Gary.....it's been 2 hours since you started this thread. I'm surprised there have not been any responses. Too early in the morning, I guess.

There is a strange phenomena on this forum. If you post cards that are not encapsulated in rectangular plastic with a Graded # on them, they are most often ignored.
And, many 19th Century cards posted on this forum have not been graded.


Anyhow, having said all that, here are examples of the stars in my favorite set (N162)......








And, how's about this for going deep into rare 19th Century stuff...... 1871 Troy Haymakers






TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[Wanaselja]

I'm not sure I agree with the above comment. I don't think grading has anything to do with it. If you've been paying attention to the current market it's been gradually moving back in time. The boom started w/ modern and moved back into Junk Wax and is now in post war. I imagine pre war will be next and so on. I think as each market gets beyond the reach of most collectors they start to look elsewhere for value.

I think the biggest thing 19th Century cards suffer from is the dominance of Wagner, Cobb, Matty, Johnson, Cy Young, Lajoie, Speaker etc. in the narrative of the first stars of the game coupled with the inaugural HOF induction class. Even seasoned fans and collectors tend to think of the game that we know today starting with that crop of stars.

Maybe I'm wrong in all of this but as someone who's been collecting on and off since he was 9 and who grew up loving baseball history and being more drawn to it now than ever I tend to view the game as really starting with the above mentioned guys. That being said - as I find myself being priced out of what I like to buy (or not yet able to justify paying double etc) I've found myself in the last few days looking into 19th Century. Mouschi's post (and past posts) certainly helped in that regards.

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by GaryPassamonte

With all the fanfare about high card prices, not much has happened with the prices of 19th century cards. Are they being left behind? Is it the "grading" aspect, with most 19th century cards being in lower grades? Is it a lack of interest in the early history of the game?

Personally I think it is lack of knowledge on the 19th century players. The general public, and to a large degree I think even those on this board, do not know the 19th century players, at least not in the same way we know the early 20th century players. I would say most people could give some detailed information on Cobb, Mathewson, Ruth, Wagner, or Young but I don't think nearly as many could give you detailed info on Anson, Ward, Ewing, or Wright.

[OldOriole]

I've seen an uptick in prices for 19th century cards, maybe not the same percentage as other cards but there's a definite increase. As an example, last week there was an Old Judge on eBay. It was a common, but an Oriole so I had to go for it. Very, very nice image on the front. I bid $560.....and did NOT win it. I'd say the 19th century card market is plenty healthy.

[jbsports33]

It could be a lack of knowledge, only so many people take a chance on 19th Century!

Jimmy

[Piratedogcardshows]

I hope it stays that way. With my main interests hard to come by, I have been picking up alot of 19th century goodies!

[the-illini]

I think it is a lack of knowledge of the players - despite there only being 25 years between the OJ and 206 sets, there are a lot more people who have learned about who Rube Waddell is than Mickey Welch.

[jcmtiger]

Originally Posted by GaryPassamonte

With all the fanfare about high card prices, not much has happened with the prices of 19th century cards. Are they being left behind? Is it the "grading" aspect, with most 19th century cards being in lower grades? Is it a lack of interest in the early history of the game?

Collectors seem to be holding on to their 19th Century stuff in my opinion. I can’t find anything new for Detroit players.

[insidethewrapper]

I personally past on all 19th Century cards if they are not graded. I don't want to spend the money to get them graded and wait almost a year to put them in my collection. I agree , most 19th Century are probably already in collections and will only be sold when the collector passes away. I haven't seen much to add to my collection lately plus at the current high prices on everything it has driven me out of the baseball card hobby. I really can't add anything to my collection due to the high costs of what I want and still need. So now I'm a Non-Sports Collector for the most part, just can't add anything to my baseball collection. It's great for the value of my collection, but it has driven me from collecting anymore.

[packs]

I was hoping an Art Whitney with dog would slip through the cracks on eBay the other day but it went for a pretty good price. Thought I'd catch someone napping with all the attention elsewhere.

[Vintagecatcher]

Ted,

That's a beautiful N162 set! Spent many a weekend antiquing in that area of NH where you picked some of them up.

Thanks for including the Haymaker scorecard. That's a real "knockout" item!

haymaker (n.)
mid-15c. as the name of an agricultural occupation, "one who cuts and dries grass" (hay-making is attested from c. 1400); 1910 in the sense of "very strong blow with the fist," from hay + agent noun of make; the punch probably so called for resemblance to the wide swinging stroke of a scythe. Haymaker punch attested from 1907.

Patrick

[Fred]

All we can do is hope that the 19th century stuff doesn't go stoopid on us.

Makes you wonder if certain cards will take off. Cards that are popular like the N162s. The Anson and Kelly are fairly sought after.

I think N172 Cal League cards are just too rare so they're probably not going to be affected, however what about tough cards like a "Phenomenal Smith" N172 or Spotted Ties?

I haven't paid attention to this, has anyone seen radical increases in certain 19th century cards?

[jcmtiger]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

I personally past on all 19th Century cards if they are not graded. I don't want to spend the money to get them graded and wait almost a year to put them in my collection. I agree , most 19th Century are probably already in collections and will only be sold when the collector passes away. I haven't seen much to add to my collection lately plus at the current high prices on everything it has driven me out of the baseball card hobby. I really can't add anything to my collection due to the high costs of what I want and still need. So now I'm a Non-Sports Collector for the most part, just can't add anything to my baseball collection. It's great for the value of my collection, but it has driven me from collecting anymore.

Looks like your collecting interests are similar to mine. LOL

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by jcmtiger

Collectors seem to be holding on to their 19th Century stuff in my opinion.

I agree, and this is true of high quality 19th century boxing as well. They just don't seem to be offered up.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I agree, and this is true of high quality 19th century boxing as well. They just don't seem to be offered up.

Would the lack of available 19th C material result in what might be considered a depressed sector when comparing to the price escalation in other card sectors?

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Vintagecatcher

Ted,

That's a beautiful N162 set! Spent many a weekend antiquing in that area of NH where you picked some of them up.

Thanks for including the Haymaker scorecard. That's a real "knockout" item.

Patrick

Thanks, Pat, for the compliments.

The Antique shop in Peterborough (NH) advertised this N162 set in SCD back in the late 1980's. I called them to hold these cards,
since I was driving up to Maine to visit with my daughter and her family.

Here's the Album (A36) depicting all 50 cards in the N162 set. It is Sportscard lithography at it's best.




TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[Leon]

For whatever reason the demand for 19th century just hasn't been there the last several years. Prices haven't gone up too much at all, from what I see.

[packs]

I think prices might even be trending down in some cases. Kalamazoo Bats used to be pricey in any condition but a lot of them have hit the auction circuit lately and prices have really come down.

[1880nonsports]

in a thinly traded marketplace....

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

I personally past on all 19th Century cards if they are not graded. I don't want to spend the money to get them graded and wait almost a year to put them in my collection. I agree , most 19th Century are probably already in collections and will only be sold when the collector passes away. I haven't seen much to add to my collection lately plus at the current high prices on everything it has driven me out of the baseball card hobby. I really can't add anything to my collection due to the high costs of what I want and still need. So now I'm a Non-Sports Collector for the most part, just can't add anything to my baseball collection. It's great for the value of my collection, but it has driven me from collecting anymore.

This post most closely echoes my sentiments as well. But rather than turning to non-sports, I have made some killer Golf acquisitions. Just as cool as Baseball, and the history runs even deeper. And the prices are soooo much better... items like early gutty and mesh pattern golf balls, hickory irons, long-nose woods, figural statues, trophies, etc. Very rewarding, when the baseball stuff has all dried up or become unaffordable/unattainable.

[Snapolit1]

It’s not that complicated. A large part of the escalation in post war is basically investors. They may like baseball too, but their primary
Goal is to buy an asset that has wide societal recognition and will be in demand for years to come. That card is not an 1893 card of some dude know only to SABR people and folks on this board.
Not passing judgment on what Anyone collects.
It’s like saying why do the rents keep going up on Fifth Avenue in NYC and not at the nice little strip mall 13 miles away.

[puckpaul]

Don’t see much talk about the Round Album on here. This should be hot too! Just beautiful, up there with the N162’s as my favorite early sets. (Thought I would match Ted’s posting...I have rest of the set too).

I think the early stuff suffers from name recognition and bragging rights issues for the fast money. But it’s beautiful, rare, and collectible so should get some spillover.

[aelefson]

I love any 19th century baseball item but I have never loved paying the high prices most of the cards sell for. I have instead focused on memorabilia and ephemera. Below are some trade cards which are significantly cheaper than similarly aged baseball cards. The graphics are interesting and some of my favorite ones are for baseball equipment dealers.

Alan