Non-delivery/severe delay on a BST transaction

[kevinlenane]

I wanted to poll the group on a friendly pre-war transaction the BST forum. Basically I ordered a couple pre-war cards on Dec 10 and I have not received them yet. The seller has been communicative when I ask questions and cordial but the investigation process just involves calling USPS which in my experience is not a wonderful experience for the caller nor does it achieve a ton. Anyway, he's making efforts there but the tracking has shown it as "in transit" for over a month. So my question is - how long do I wait until I get a refund? Two months? I'm assuming that folks agree that if a buyer doesn't receive an item they aren't responsible for it's cost but open to hearing other opinions there. Mostly though I just want to understand how long we should wait until I receive/ask for a refund.

Oh Additional wrinkle I just found out was that the seller didn't utilize insurance. I don't see any shipping issues as relevant to me since I didn't make any decisions on method - carrier etc. but again happy to hear if others differ.

I will also reiterate that the seller has been responsive and nice and it's not a contentious thing - I just want an independent opinion on next steps.

[kmac32]

I had a similar situation with an ebay card purchase. Mine was an S74 silk from a guy in Pennsylvania. Shipped on the 5th of December. Nothing by New Years so seller refunded. According to tracking fell off the face of the earth on the 9th of December. USPS has no clue as to what happened. May or may not show up. Ugh

[rats60]

Has he filed a lost package claim with USPS? I have had to do that twice in the last year. Both times USPS has found the package and delivered it in a couple days. Otherwise, the package may sit somewhere in their system for months.

[Brian Van Horn]

Just so we are clear on this matter. I am the sender of the package in question. I have contacted both the Pittsburgh consumer affairs department and the Long Island consumer affairs departments of the USPS. I am waiting to hear back from the latter. I have also previously opened not one, but two cases in the matter which were closed out on New York's end without notice or any information of any kind. As anyone who deals with me knows, I send out packages certified mail for tracking purposes.

[buymycards]

Originally Posted by Brian Van Horn

Just so we are clear on this matter. I am the sender of the package in question. I have contacted both the Pittsburgh consumer affairs department and the Long Island consumer affairs departments of the USPS. I am waiting to hear back from the latter. I have also previously opened not one, but two cases in the matter which were closed out on New York's end without notice or any information of any kind. As anyone who deals with me knows, I send out packages certified mail for tracking purposes.

Hi Brian, go online and file a complaint with one of your Congressman/woman. The complaint will go right to the District Manager, who will bring a shit storm on the Consumer Affairs office to resolve this. It doesn't always work, because sometimes things just disappear, but many times they will resolve it quickly.

[36GoudeyMan]

Just to add my 2 cents, I just did a deal with Brian and everything went perfectly fine. I would only add that this doesn't seem to all be a seller issue, but more of a transportation one.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by buymycards

Hi Brian, go online and file a complaint with one of your Congressman/woman. The complaint will go right to the District Manager, who will bring a shit storm on the Consumer Affairs office to resolve this. It doesn't always work, because sometimes things just disappear, but many times they will resolve it quickly.

As discussed many times, certified mail, while reportedly the safest way to go, it slow as shit. I've had a month go by with total confusion before seeing any movement. I always imagine some poor bastard has gone off to the hospital for weeks and the package is waiting on his desk because for some reason he has to sign it next and only him. I've never had a problem with dozens of BST transactions just going with a priority box and tracking.

I'm always on the fence about asking for higher levels of insurance. In a way I feel like that does nothing but flag it as something worth stealing if one is so inclined. On the other hand, with cameras, computers, etc., I suspect it would be awfully hard to a USPS employee to pilfer a package.

[Silverskulls]

Originally Posted by buymycards

Hi Brian, go online and file a complaint with one of your Congressman/woman. The complaint will go right to the District Manager, who will bring a shit storm on the Consumer Affairs office to resolve this. It doesn't always work, because sometimes things just disappear, but many times they will resolve it quickly.

+1

Look up your rep here (https://www.house.gov/representative...representative) and call one of their in-State offices. Tell them you’re a constituent and need help with a USPS issue

[JustinD]

I think USPS had some holiday issues that were a tad worse than usual this year. The disorganization is apparent.

I had a package postmarked on 10/3 show up last Friday, more than 90 days after post. It showed "in transit" the entire time and the seller refunded me in November.

I reached out to them this weekend to provide payment as it was the right thing to do, however I have never had something bounce around the PO like this previously. I feel like something is up and it was not the seller.

[Jim65]

Seller is responsible until package is delivered. Have you and the seller discussed a refund?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Jim65

Seller is responsible until package is delivered. Have you and the seller discussed a refund?

No matter what the above is always true.

With that said it is up to the reciepetiant how long they should wait till they should get refunded.

I have had this exact problem on both sides with members. As the seller I offer a refund after about 2 weeks. As a buyer I will easily wait a month.

I had a weird one with a trade where my stuff showed up on time and the other persons took close to a month to show up at my house. They did not provide a tracking #. Then when it finally showed up I looked at the date on the package and they had just sent it a few days earlier.

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by Jim65

Seller is responsible until package is delivered. Have you and the seller discussed a refund?

I agree.

[Tyruscobb]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

I agree.

You can disagree all you want. Please provide some analysis - legal analysis, as to why you disagree please.

[nolemmings]

The buyer paid for a card to be delivered, not shipped. It was not delivered.

[jchcollins]

A long, drawn-out legal discussion aside, at least in the eBay and PayPal world, the heavy assumption is that it’s the seller’s responsibility to DELIVER the item to the buyer if the buyer has properly paid. OP - did you pay with PayPal G&S? If so, simply go dispute the transaction. If tracking shows you never got the item, they’ll refund you. Unlike my much more difficult case with eBay where the USPS marked an item delivered when it was really lost / stolen. To be honest this is why I’m hesitant to buy super pricey things not on eBay. If it gets lost that way, you have both eBay and PayPal standing behind you. I’ve had 2 items, maybe $100-150 each - lost by the USPS this year. Not high percentage-wise, but it does happen. One I got reimbursed, the other I didn’t. And no matter the value, it’s just an awful feeling.

Hope this can be resolved in a positive way, even with a lot of time lost.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[jchcollins]

Insuring packages for their actual value is nothing new. My LCS dealer does bulk submissions to PSA and Beckett for his customers. He gets the insurance charges back in what he upsells them for to do the grading, but it’s not uncommon for him to insure a single shipment for $15 - 20K. He did tell me the post office thinks he’s crazy; he usually ships via UPS.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk