The ethics of cracking certified cards

[Brianruns10]

Hey All,

I'm working on the 52 and 56 topps series. I used to be a PSA collector, mainly when I was starting out, as a way to protect me against less scrupulous sellers. It was nice to know I was getting good, authentic, unaltered cards.

But now that I'm more experienced, and have some reliable sellers I buy from, I'm getting into buying raw cards for albums. It's definitely more pleasing to see them all together, and to be able to handle the actual card.

But some cards are just hard to find in decent quality uncertified. And others I doubt I would want to buy uncertified. Your Willie Mays and Mickey Mantles, are just too risky. I'd still want that vouch safe.

But the conundrum I have is an ethical one. Is it right, do you think, to crack cards that are certified? I worry that I'm depriving someone else of a card for their registry set, and that i'm altering the population reports by removing a card from circulation, and potentially upsetting the records if I sell, and someone else gets it certified again.

And I don't know, maybe it's a bad idea to do from a value point.

What say you all? Am I overthinking? Is it okay to crack, or better to try to buy raw, if my goal is raw?

[Mark70Z]

Overthinking. Crack ‘em out if you don’t want the card entombed.

[aronbenabe]

Crack that baby right down the left field line!

Done it before, no guilt! (Particularly when the grade was egregiously off) It’s your money and it’s your call.


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[swarmee]

Cracking them out is fine, but just because they're in a numbered slab from PSA doesn't mean they're unaltered. That being said, if you mail PSA the flips back, they will remove them from the POP report since that is a concern of yours. Some people just crack them and leave the flips in their binder sleeve so they can see what they used to be graded.

[commishbob]

I'm a binder guy so I bust out any graded cards I need for the sets I'm trying to complete..Mantle, Mays, whoever. If I buy a graded card as a 'stand-alone' collectible, star cards from sets I'll never chase and/or fragile pre-war cards, I leave them in the case.

Does it cost me in terms of the market value of the cards? Sure, but I enjoy paging thru my sets more than anything.

[ALR-bishop]

If freeing cards from plastic prisons and returning them to their natural state is unethical me and my bolt cutter are in deep trouble

[todeen]

Originally Posted by commishbob

I'm a binder guy so I bust out any graded cards I need for the sets I'm trying to complete..Mantle, Mays, whoever..

Holders don't fit in binders, so bust em out

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[Exhibitman]

Mr. Dremel says crack away!

[midmo]

I personally couldn't care less about a registry or pop report. I have lots of graded cards, but I crack out any that I want to put in binders or if they're just low value. I never understood someone paying money to grade a card that's under $100. They just take up too much space to me.

[ALBB]

As much as I also am not fond of slabbed cards, I would be a little cautious with any extremely high value card ( very early 50s Mantle, etc)...come the day you might want to sell the stuff...a buyer might " feel better" paying you ,...knowing the..for ex - 1940 Play Ball Joe Jackson is graded/slabbed

[Volod]

I did quite a lot of cracking a few years ago as I was working on a couple of vintage sets. Then, one day I was a little too anxious to free a particular card, my hand slipped on the tool handle and a sharp piece of plastic dug a nice hole into the unfortunate image of Bow Wow Arfft. I left the violent liberation army at that point, but I still empathize with those who enjoy it.

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Cracking them out is fine, but just because they're in a numbered slab from PSA doesn't mean they're unaltered. That being said, if you mail PSA the flips back, they will remove them from the POP report since that is a concern of yours. Some people just crack them and leave the flips in their binder sleeve so they can see what they used to be graded.

I believe addresses most of what you expressed. Encourage you to look up "slabgate" regarding authenticity and 3rd party grading.

[Harliduck]

I crack on a routine basis...and like you, some cards are nice to buy graded for that trust factor. Just cracked a Ryan rookie last week as I upgraded in my binder. Natural state is natural state...and I mostly crack 5's and 6's...not sure any registry cares about the mid grades anyhow...

[commishbob]

Originally Posted by Volod

I did quite a lot of cracking a few years ago as I was working on a couple of vintage sets. Then, one day I was a little too anxious to free a particular card, my hand slipped on the tool handle and a sharp piece of plastic dug a nice hole into the unfortunate image of Bow Wow Arfft. I left the violent liberation army at that point, but I still empathize with those who enjoy it.

LOL


My very first attempt to free a card resulted in my dinging a '59 Killebrew when I put that thing together. Nothing too costly but it did cause me to be much more deliberate on subsequent operations.

BTW...I do keep the flips that came with the cards I bust loose. I stick them in one of the 20 pocket pages intended for tobacco cards. I keep that page at the back of the binder for that set.

[Case12]

I use binder, so I crack them all. Use the wire cutter method on the top corner. Works great. I put the top paper header behind the card in the binder....figure why not keep it instead of tossing it.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Brianruns10

But the conundrum I have is an ethical one. Is it right, do you think, to crack cards that are certified? I worry that I'm depriving someone else of a card for their registry set, and that i'm altering the population reports by removing a card from circulation, and potentially upsetting the records if I sell, and someone else gets it certified again

Is it ethical for me to buy and break out cards purely so that the pop reports are wrong and hoping that a registry set is left wanting?

[jchcollins]

Seeing as how none of the major TPG's have ever put policy into place by where cracking cards out is a "bad" thing...and moreover in the view of at least some of them ("Please Submit Again")...that the ability for collectors to do so clearly plays into their profit model - I have absolutely no problem with it.

[ALR-bishop]

For most folks here the answer to that would be no, but for you Doug the answer is yes because you are up to no good

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Volod

I did quite a lot of cracking a few years ago as I was working on a couple of vintage sets. Then, one day I was a little too anxious to free a particular card, my hand slipped on the tool handle and a sharp piece of plastic dug a nice hole into the unfortunate image of Bow Wow Arfft. I left the violent liberation army at that point, but I still empathize with those who enjoy it.

I've cracked at least 100 slabs in the last 2 decades and only ever damaged one card - unfortunately it was a '56 Clemente. A shard of plastic dug into the surface on his face - and an EX+ card went to about a G in a matter of seconds...

[Harliduck]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

I've cracked at least 100 slabs in the last 2 decades and only ever damaged one card - unfortunately it was a '56 Clemente. A shard of plastic dug into the surface on his face - and an EX+ card went to about a G in a matter of seconds...

Same for me...and also same I've only had one mishap. I was cracking a PSA 6 1967 Topps Boston Red Sox team (high number) and when popping with screw driver (PSA's pop so easy) the center snapped, usually never happens, and I dented the card in the middle...tiny dent. Went from a 6 to a 3...lol. That hurt, and now I take just a little more time so that doesn't happen again. Got a little cocky there. Still a nice card in my binder but I know I will end up replacing...everytime I see that card I get anxiety!

[Harliduck]

Is it terrible to add that I have popped 4's and 5's that look like 6's and 7's...and have sold a few those that were now raw and they sold for more raw? I don't sell that often but you think someone with a good eye could make a lot of side profit doing so. That 5 was probably originally sent in for grading hoping for a 7, now someone knew may think it can be a 7...

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Harliduck

Is it terrible to add that I have popped 4's and 5's that look like 6's and 7's...and have sold a few those that were now raw and they sold for more raw?

Not at all, this actually highlights the subjectivity inherent with grading mid-range cards. I popped another '56 Clemente in a BVG 5 last year because there was a problem with the case or something, and later decided to sell it. Greg Morris bought it from me for comprable to what I paid, and then later sold it for nearly 2x that amount. I saw the auction on the other end and know it was the same card; and he described it accurately as EX to EX+. So the point there is just that particularly for some sellers, the spectulation is rampant and people will shell out for raw cards - even if they just think they may be undergraded. That or there is something just hypnotic about bright blue backgrounds...