Help with this 52 Topps Mantle

[Blunder19]

Hi Everyone,

I am going tomorrow to look at buying my first 52 topps mantle.. I know little about the card.. in terms of spotting fakes... im hoping someone can help me with any known things to look for if buying a raw 52 tops mantle, i would greatly appreciate it...

See images below.. looks as if it would grade a 1 out of 10 to me... agree?




thanks for any advice..

[cardsagain74]

Use this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUwmxKaMXmQ

Also, when a '52 T Mantle is ungraded in the screwdown holder nowadays, the odds of it being real aren't too good

[robw1959]

Very informative video. On the back I spotted the stitching going right-to-left on the baseball instead of left-to-right as authentic ones should have and the "t" failing to line up with the two "s"es along the right side.

[Blunder19]

wow thanks for the video... according to this video the card i would be looking at tomorrow is a fake.. the stitching on the baseball on the back top left does not flow the correct way... appreciate the link.. you saved me here..

[Blunder19]

hoping others can chime in... in the title of the video it says "disregard comments on fake backs"... does that mean the back theory was proved wrong?

i am finding cards in PSA holders that sold on ebay with the stitching the same way as the card i am supposed to look at..

example of a PSA 5.. with stitching from right to left.... based on the below i would reverse my thinking and say the card is real... any input is appreciated..

[Cliff Bowman]

It doesn't prove that it is real but that is the correct stitching direction for the 1952 Topps Mantle with the black line under the Yankees logo.

[irv]

Mantle, Robinson and Thompson were double printed cards and the stitching is is counter clockwise on them.

Mantle is easier to tell as the front has more differences than the other 2 cards as has been pointed out.
Use these pics. It should help you with your decision.
There is also this link: https://allvintagecards.com/how-to-s...-topps-mantle/

Good luck.

[cardsagain74]

What is the red 4 pointing to on the type 1? I don't see that referenced anywhere.

The allvintagecards link that Irv just posted is very accurate.

The stitching on the baseball on the back goes right to left on Type 1s (which is your card), and left to right on type 2s, so that looks ok. In the video, his information about fake backs is wrong, so that guy is probably referring his own advice where he says "disregard comments on fake backs".

Based on everything I can see from your card (using all the expert info referenced), it looks like a real type 1 card. Which I cannot fathom, since as mentioned, the initial screwdown low grade appearance just screams typical fake. But it does appear to check all the right boxes, unless there's something I'm missing

This is just my very neophyte opinion on spotting fakes, especially when it comes to the '52 Mantle. Caveat emptor.

[thecomebacker]

Originally Posted by cardsagain74

What is the red 4 pointing to on the type 1? I don't see that referenced anywhere.

The allvintagecards link that Irv just posted is very accurate.

The stitching on the baseball on the back goes right to left on Type 1s (which is your card), and left to right on type 2s, so that looks ok. In the video, his information about fake backs is wrong, so that guy is probably referring his own advice where he says "disregard comments on fake backs".

Based on everything I can see from your card (using all the expert info referenced), it looks like a real type 1 card. Which I cannot fathom, since as mentioned, the initial screwdown low grade appearance just screams typical fake. But it does appear to check all the right boxes, unless there's something I'm missing

This is just my very neophyte opinion on spotting fakes, especially when it comes to the '52 Mantle. Caveat emptor.

This guy is right ^^^. The guy in the video is an idiot. He doesn’t even know th Type 1 back. The card you showed has a chance of being real.

[egbeachley]

Are fakes so good now that an experienced collector can’t tell from good scans?

The wear looks natural to me. I think it’s real.

[chriskim]

With all these hesitation in mind, I wouldn't buy an ungraded Mantle. Period! Unless it is a few thousand dollar less but (again) that would be too good to be true. A graded 1 Mantle RC is less than $10k anyways.

[tedzan]

Hi Jamie

Here are the two Mantle cards from my master 1952 TOPPS set. When you compare the front's, you will notice minor differences.
The most notable difference is the glossy glare on Mickey's right arm (Type 2) vs. the clear skin tone (Type 1).


Type 1 .................................................. .........……........... Type 2




And, as already stated the stitches on the BB on the back are reversed between Type 1 vs. Type 2 cards.

Good luck.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[chriskim]

Just scan thru that youtube video... he should delete his video if there's incorrect information. putting ""disregard comments on fake backs"" in comment isn't enough. STUPID!

[todeen]

Originally Posted by egbeachley

Are fakes so good now that an experienced collector can’t tell from good scans?



The wear looks natural to me. I think it’s real.

I thought the same thing about usual wear.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[packs]

I would say there is probably like a 2 percent chance it's authentic. What's the story with the card? I find hard to believe that anyone would know enough to know the 52 Mantle exists but not know enough about how to maximize value on a card like that re: getting it graded or auctioning it through a house.

It would be like if someone said they found a first issue of Superman and instead of doing any due diligence they posted an ad on Craigslist. How likely is it to work out for the buyer?

[Leon]

Could be real with a hidden alteration such as coloring etc.....which could be why it's not in a holder. Caveat emptor. Maybe buy with the guarantee of it being unaltered according to the opinionators.

[Rhotchkiss]

Jamie, not that TPGs are always right, but I, personally, would never buy a card of this magnitude, especially if it’s outside my comfort (I.e., t206 for you), that wasn’t in an SGC or PSA flip. As we all know, hazing it in the flip is no guaranty, but it does provide a level of comfort that I would need.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I also like the wear as someone stated above and think it's legit, but Leon makes a very good point. Just because it may be authentic doesn't mean it's problem free. If it is real AND unaltered I think it's a "2." I would prefer to see it out of the screw down though.

[hcv123]

Just looked at a fake 53 and 52 Bowman the other day. Essential tools:

1) A known real 1952 Topps card (any player) - to compare feel, size and appearance
2) A ruler to make sure it measures correct 2 5/8 x 3 3/4
3) a 10 power loupe - under magnification a fake will appear to have a "dot pattern" over areas that should be solid color
4) a blacklight to check for recoloring and alteration
5) a printout of the signs to look for on a fake - readily available with a google search for both type 1 and type 2 cards.
6) Common sense - applied as needed

Good luck - let us know how it works out.

Ps Was this a "Craigs list find"? If so be EXTRA careful

[ALR-bishop]

Like Ted I have both versions with my set. One graded, one not. I was confident the ungraded version was good but because I have been a long time customer sent it to Levi Bleam to verify that

[x2drich2000]

Add me to the group that believes it to be real. Remember this is a card that there is no shortage of them in the hobby and outside of the hobby. There are plenty of people who have this card in their childhood collection and never bothered to keep up with the hobby trends of grading. However, I would also be cautious with it in that screw down. Definitely take it out before purchasing to make sure it is not affixed to the plastic. Who knows how long it has been in there. Also keep in mind, depending on how tight it is, the corners may have been compressed and consider how a TPG would look at it in that situation. I would also take a common 52 with you to compare the feel of the card. Actually touching the card will tell you a lot.

Edit to add: also keep in mind it hurts a lot less to walk away from a good deal you're unsure about than pay for a mistake.

[Yoda]

Perhaps sounds simplistic, but why not ask the owner why he never got the card graded?

[Blunder19]

the card has been in the family.. the guys father who is now in his 70s is the original owner.. and passed the card down to his son who is the one looking to sell his card.. its been with the family since taken out of the pack. (is what i am being told)

[chalupacollects]

You should also sniff it to see if it smells like old cardboard and bring another 52 with you sit them side by side to check thickness (from being in screwdown.)

May not have been graded as it looks like a thumbtack hole in upper left.

[packs]

Originally Posted by Blunder19

the card has been in the family.. the guys father who is now in his 70s is the original owner.. and passed the card down to his son who is the one looking to sell his card.. its been with the family since taken out of the pack. (is what i am being told)

That is the same story told by everyone though. It wouldn't inspire confidence in me. I've seen sale posts for Sinclair Oil Ruth baseballs that the person insists were gathered in person by a grandfather.

[Rhotchkiss]

I think DJ gave some great advice - to paraphrase, you don’t get hurt by the deals you don’t do.

If you are at all doubtful, then walk. The downside is likely much greater than the upside, and you will have plenty of opportunities to buy a 52 mantle (they are not particularly rare)

[chalupacollects]

Originally Posted by Blunder19

the card has been in the family.. the guys father who is now in his 70s is the original owner.. and passed the card down to his son who is the one looking to sell his card.. its been with the family since taken out of the pack. (is what i am being told)

That would mean he was born after 1940 for a 1952 card....so if he is less than 80 he was under 12 when he obtained it according to the math... looks good though...

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by Blunder19

I am going tomorrow to look at buying my first 52 topps mantle.. I know little about the card.. in terms of spotting fakes... im hoping someone can help me with any known things to look for if buying a raw 52 tops mantle, i would greatly appreciate it...

Let's say you have never benched in your life, and I tell you to lift 300 pounds, would you do it? That's what I see you doing here. Nobody can help you buy a raw card online. Counterfeiters are "upgrading" their work all the time. If you want a 1952 Topps Mantle, then just purchase a graded example.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

Add me to the group that believes it to be real. Remember this is a card that there is no shortage of them in the hobby and outside of the hobby. There are plenty of people who have this card in their childhood collection and never bothered to keep up with the hobby trends of grading. However, I would also be cautious with it in that screw down. Definitely take it out before purchasing to make sure it is not affixed to the plastic. Who knows how long it has been in there. Also keep in mind, depending on how tight it is, the corners may have been compressed and consider how a TPG would look at it in that situation. I would also take a common 52 with you to compare the feel of the card. Actually touching the card will tell you a lot.

Edit to add: also keep in mind it hurts a lot less to walk away from a good deal you're unsure about than pay for a mistake.

All of these are also reasons that drive the value of the card down. So if you see them, take note. Then make your offer accordingly.

What Leon said above is true. Look for possible alterations.

Good luck!

[1952boyntoncollector]

if he is asking a too good to be true price..then you know the rest

[RCMcKenzie]

I see aged reprints like this one in the link below on eBay all the time. I wouldn't buy a raw 52 Mantle from someone I didn't know. Just my .02.

www.ebay.com/itm/313009361036

[cammb]

Originally Posted by Blunder19

the card has been in the family.. the guys father who is now in his 70s is the original owner.. and passed the card down to his son who is the one looking to sell his card.. its been with the family since taken out of the pack. (is what i am being told)

Taken out of the pack in THAT condition?

[Jewish-collector]

Jamie - Sometimes you gotta say WTF and walk away.

[luciobar1980]

I vote real as well.

[Bigdaddy]

Without my Topps sniffing hound dog being able to check the card in person, I'd vote real on this one. But then again, I'm not voting with my money.

[chriskim]

$2500 is worth the risk

[hcv123]

Please share what decision(s) you made and how it turned out? You were going to look at it and possibly purchase yesterday?

[lowpopper]

Where is this card? I will go look at it

[Republicaninmass]

Artificially aged corners, stock doesnt look right where its worn.

I guess It could be the shadow in the photo.

Admittedly, I'm a skeptic.


Ive probably bought 2 or 3 Mantles on ebay for good prices that were never shipped and probably from scammers with 300 or so feedback. Never lost in them, but would be worth a few more photos at least.

[Sean]

Can you tell him that you'll buy it if he gets it graded? You can offer to pay for the grading if it comes back genuine.

[packs]

If you're going to go that route why not buy one already slabbed? Surely the appeal of this card is the lotto ticket aspect of paying well below it's value.

[Blunder19]

The dollar amount the seller wanted for the card was closer to $12K.. at that price I can find a graded example. So no card was acquired.

but appreciate the help from the forum.. members stepped in right away to help.. Net54 is a great place for hobby talk, and protecting each other against scams.

[RCMcKenzie]

I'm working on a 52 set in raw, low to mid grade and have been sorting cards, and placing them into cardsaver 1's. It's a fun side project. I buy the occasional, graded card to see them in top shape. I hope to find the right Mantle at some point.

I grabbed a card off of a stack with honest wear to show here. I didn't like the Mantle he had for sale, but it may have been real. He needs to send it to SGC or whatever to sell it, especially online..Rob

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Blunder19

The dollar amount the seller wanted for the card was closer to $12K.. at that price I can find a graded example. So no card was acquired.

but appreciate the help from the forum.. members stepped in right away to help.. Net54 is a great place for hobby talk, and protecting each other against scams.

That is probably the smart move, because there was a real good chance that card was fake anyway.

[chriskim]

$12k for a raw "Mantle"? Crazy.... Not worth the risk! $5k may be.

[cardsagain74]

It's unsettling that this example covers every basis for a real type 1 Mantle (as far as the many usual subtle details to look for), but many of us still can't believe that it's real.

I was always going to buy a graded one anyway when the time comes, but it'd still be very helpful to diagnose fakes with more accuracy. And for the other '52 Topps too, where the possibility of other fakes will have to be worked around on a regular basis

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi Jamie

Here are the two Mantle cards from my master 1952 TOPPS set. When you compare the front's, you will notice minor differences.
The most notable difference is the glossy glare on Mickey's right arm (Type 2) vs. the clear skin tone (Type 1).


Type 1 .................................................. .........……........... Type 2




And, as already stated the stitches on the BB on the back are reversed between Type 1 vs. Type 2 cards.

Good luck.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

Here's a Coinky Dink for all you Mantle Fans!!!!

I believe I own the same card as the type 2 in your 1952 master set?

Of course it's been cracked out and into another holder, but here is a photo and a scan of the same card. In the scan, you can see the crease by the logo. When I bought the card, I did some research before the purchase to see if the card had been altered and I saw that same exact card and assumed it was the same?

I had a respected AH, associated with the sale of the card, tell me he made the flip...

What do think? Is it the same card?

[1952boyntoncollector]

what you mean 'made the flip'

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

what you mean 'made the flip'

From the card in Ted Z's original post with the old SGC label to my card with the new SGC label. I think that's what they call it a "flip".

I'm sorry, but the terminology is new to me. Flip, Flop, POP...whatever you call it, it's the SAME CARD. From one plastic container to another newer plastic container....

I was just curious how the card could be in someones "Master 1952 Topps set", yet the card is in my possession??? Unless, mine is FAKE, which is certainly possible? Maybe we can just add it to the Billion Dollar Fraud?

[RCMcKenzie]

I know I sometimes post a scan of a card that I used to own, and forget that I traded it away years earlier. Maybe that's what happened here. Your Mantle has good provenance it seems...Rob