SGC bowing out

[Bigdaddy]

Maybe I missed it here, but did anyone see that SGC has announced that they will no longer be certifying autographs as of April 1? I wonder if the T206 forgeries and the potential liability had anything to do with the decision?

And will there be any impact in the value of SGC cert'd autos?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Wow, first Tickets now this. Seems like a screwy business model.

Wait maybe it's an epic April Fools joke...

[RichardSimon]

Who else worked for SGC besides Studebaker?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Who else worked for SGC besides Studebaker?

Mike Root did...think he went to CAS now...

[Yastrzemski Sports]

In the past 2 months one of their guys went to PSA and the other went to Beckett. They are out of authenticators.

[silvor]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

I wonder if the T206 forgeries and the potential liability had anything to do with the decision?

Could be. But wasn't SGC the one's who wouldn't certify the JSA t206 which kind of started the ball rolling on outing all those fakes?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

All 4 of the largest companies got caught in the T206 fallout but I believe JSA had the most problem cards.

[Runscott]

I had a long talk Tuesday with the head of a major auction house, and I'll repeat one thing I said to him during our discussion: Buying an expensive autograph based entirely on JSA or PSA is foolishness. They are supplemental to your own positive belief that the autograph is authentic. If you don't have such skills (and most people don't), then you have no business buying the item unless you have a trusted proxy to make the assessment for you.

And that would NOT be anyone who has a financial interest in the sale of the item.

I know there are those who disagree with the above, and that makes sense - such thinking is why the TPAs are in business, for better or worse.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

All 4 of the largest companies got caught in the T206 fallout but I believe JSA had the most problem cards.

Nope. SGC had 13 of the 15, while JSA had 7. In fact, 8 of the 13 SGC authenticated were done without dual certification. PSA had 1 of the 15 - the biggest one (Baker) - but it was done after JSA had previously authenticated it. The only one that JSA authenticated that wasn't dual certified was the Marquard in Clean Sweep, which started it all.

Finally, I think Beckett was left unscathed. So really SGC was the principal company affected (13), with JSA in at second with about half as many (7), and PSA just 1.

SGC Only
1. Bob Rhoades SGC (Hunt)
2. Paddy Livingston SGC (Hunt)
3. Elmer Flick SGC (Hunt)
4. Heinie Zimmerman SGC (Hunt)
5. Larry Doyle SGC (eBay)
6. Jap Barbeau SGC (Hunt)
7. Murray SGC (Hunt)
8. Eddie Cicotte SGC (Hunt)

SGC/JSA
9. Fred Parent SGC/JSA (REA)
10. Billy Sullivan SGC/JSA (REA)
11. Wid Conroy SGC/JSA (REA)
12. Nap Rucker SGC/JSA (REA)
13. Jesse Tannehill SGC/JSA (REA)

PSA-DNA/JSA
14. Frank "Homerun" Baker (JSA/PSA-DNA) (REA twice)

JSA Only (SGC Rejected)
15. Rube Marquard JSA (Clean Sweep)

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Buying an expensive autograph based entirely on JSA or PSA is foolishness.

I got all my money back from four that I owned precisely because they were certified and REA and Hunt made things right. As long as bidders get their money back from the auction houses or the TPAs, I think it may be more accurate to say that it would be foolish to believe that an autograph is real based entirely on SGC, JSA or PSA. But, I don't feel foolish for having bought the cards at the outset.

The fact that SGC should have to cough up some serious coin here certainly can't help their bottom line, and must have been one of the reasons they are getting out of that side of the business.

[Runscott]

Sorry, didn't mean to insult anyone who had carefully thought out an escape plan. I'm glad to hear things worked out in your example.

On the other hand, there are bad certified Ruth balls sitting on mantels all across the USA, and no one will ever be reimbursed for them.

[pawpawdiv9]

Saw this on Facebook:

SGC
4 hrs ·
OHIO SHOW LAST CHANCE FOR AUTOGRAPH SUBMISSIONS!!!

As of April 1st, SGC will no longer be accepting submissions for autograph authentication. Any orders we already have in-house will be completed and returned as normal. If you have a submission in-house and no longer wish to have the service completed, please contact Russel Crowell at russ@gosgc.com. Please see below for our last ever ON-SITE AUTOGRAPH AUTHENTICATION SPECIALS to be offered at the Ohio Sports Collectors Convention.

This decision will allow us to focus our full attention on card grading and uniform authentication moving forward. We also have many exciting new things on the horizon and cannot wait to introduce them to you in the near future. Stay tuned and thank you for the continued trust and support you have shown to SGC over the years!

---------------------------------

ON-SITE AUTOGRAPH SPECIALS

$7 STANDARD CERT SPECIAL
Submit 20 or more items for Standard Certification (4 signatures or less per item) regularly priced $25 or less at $7 per item.


$12 NON-SPORTS CERT SPECIAL
Submit 20 or more single-signed non-sports items for Standard Certification regularly priced $25 or less at $12 per item.


$35 MANTLE, DIMAGGIO, WILLIAMS SPECIAL
Submit items single-signed by Mickey Mantle, Joe DiMaggio & Ted Williams for Premium Certification regularly priced $100 or less at $35 per item.

--------------------------------

OHIO SPORTS COLLECTOR CONVENTION

MARCH 29TH - 31ST, 2019

Holiday Inn Select
15471 Royalton Rd
Strongsville, OH 44136

3/29: 12:00pm - 8:00pm
3/30: 10:00am - 6:00pm
3/31: 10:00am - 4:00pm

http://www.ohiosportscollector.com/

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Sorry, didn't mean to insult anyone who had carefully thought out an escape plan. I'm glad to hear things worked out in your example.

On the other hand, there are bad certified Ruth balls sitting on mantels all across the USA, and no one will ever be reimbursed for them.

What JSA or PSA/DNA certified Ruth balls that are currently sitting on mantels are worthless?

Again, regardless of what percentage of those you think are fake - 1% to 99% - the simple fact is they are still valuable today. Today - March 28, 2019 - you can still get "reimbursed."

The scary thing is when JSA or PSA/DNA go under, or start to not stand by their authentications. Your autograph collection is only as valuable as the credibility of the Third-Party Authenticator, or the willingness of collectors to purchase items without a certification.

[whitey19thcentury]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Who else worked for SGC besides Studebaker?

Phil Marks for a brief time.

[packs]

No opinion on SGC or their abilities to authenticate but probably not a great idea to offer cut-rate fees for high dollar signatures before ending your authentication services.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by packs

probably not a great idea to offer cut-rate fees for high dollar signatures before ending your authentication services.

+1

[felada]

Is the the first step before the office will be open Monday if you have any questions?

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Again, regardless of what percentage of those you think are fake - 1% to 99% - the simple fact is they are still valuable today. Today - March 28, 2019 - you can still get "reimbursed."

You are not alone in this collecting mentality - as long as they are "valuable" then it doesn't matter whether or not they are authentic.

I'll bow out of this, as you and I have completely different ethics about collecting and neither will change the other's mind.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Runscott

You are not alone in this collecting mentality - as long as they are "valuable" then it doesn't matter whether or not they are authentic.

I'll bow out of this, as you and I have completely different ethics about collecting and neither will change the other's mind.

I'd be curious to know more about your ethics. I only purchase autographed cards that I believe to be real. By purchasing them with an LOA, I protect myself from mistakes, but only to the extent that the LOA is still worth reimbursement - either in a resale situation, or in a reimbursement context.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by pawpawdiv9

Saw this on Facebook:

SGC
4 hrs ·
OHIO SHOW LAST CHANCE FOR AUTOGRAPH SUBMISSIONS!!!

As of April 1st, SGC will no longer be accepting submissions for autograph authentication. Any orders we already have in-house will be completed and returned as normal. If you have a submission in-house and no longer wish to have the service completed, please contact Russel Crowell at russ@gosgc.com. Please see below for our last ever ON-SITE AUTOGRAPH AUTHENTICATION SPECIALS to be offered at the Ohio Sports Collectors Convention.

This decision will allow us to focus our full attention on card grading and uniform authentication moving forward. We also have many exciting new things on the horizon and cannot wait to introduce them to you in the near future. Stay tuned and thank you for the continued trust and support you have shown to SGC over the years!

---------------------------------

ON-SITE AUTOGRAPH SPECIALS

$7 STANDARD CERT SPECIAL
Submit 20 or more items for Standard Certification (4 signatures or less per item) regularly priced $25 or less at $7 per item.


$12 NON-SPORTS CERT SPECIAL
Submit 20 or more single-signed non-sports items for Standard Certification regularly priced $25 or less at $12 per item.


$35 MANTLE, DIMAGGIO, WILLIAMS SPECIAL
Submit items single-signed by Mickey Mantle, Joe DiMaggio & Ted Williams for Premium Certification regularly priced $100 or less at $35 per item.

--------------------------------

OHIO SPORTS COLLECTOR CONVENTION

MARCH 29TH - 31ST, 2019

Holiday Inn Select
15471 Royalton Rd
Strongsville, OH 44136

3/29: 12:00pm - 8:00pm
3/30: 10:00am - 6:00pm
3/31: 10:00am - 4:00pm

http://www.ohiosportscollector.com/

Sounds like SGC will be GAI before PSA....nice going

[Case12]

Originally Posted by fuddjcal

sounds like sgc will be gai before psa....nice going

omg!

[Yastrzemski Sports]

I’ve always found Larry to be a guy I trust. As opposed to GAI who put out a bunch of garbage SGC hasn’t done that.

BTW - does anyone think $35 is a cut rate deal on Mantle Williams DiMaggio? What are the balls worth? 350-600. $35 seems like a fair price if not a little high.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports

I’ve always found Larry to be a guy I trust. As opposed to GAI who put out a bunch of garbage SGC hasn’t done that.

BTW - does anyone think $35 is a cut rate deal on Mantle Williams DiMaggio? What are the balls worth? 350-600. $35 seems like a fair price if not a little high.

PSA charges $100 for a Mantle.

A Mantle ball uncerted will typically go for $300 - $350. A certed ball will sell for around $500. $35 seems like a very fair price IMO.

BTW, I agree that Larry is a good guy, a skilled authenticator and an asset to the hobby.

[Republicaninmass]

This cant be good, psa already over loaded

[thetruthisoutthere]

I can't believe that SGC certed this.


JeterSGC-1.jpg

[thetruthisoutthere]

Another Jeter forgery certed by SGC.

Both listed by the same seller.



JeterSGCForgery-1.jpg

[Exhibitman]

Perhaps it is best they quit.

[Ryan1125]

Yikes!!! Even if you knew nothing about Jeter sigs, the speed on that blue one in particular is atrocious!

[Republicaninmass]

Always use your own judgement, ask about provenance, and ask those more educated


Somewhere lower

Never get cheated

[drcy]

Originally Posted by Runscott

You are not alone in this collecting mentality - as long as they are "valuable" then it doesn't matter whether or not they are authentic.

I'll bow out of this, as you and I have completely different ethics about collecting and neither will change the other's mind.

There was an 'investment' thread on the main board, and I'll tell you that the best longterm investment involves buying an item that is authentic.

Authenticity is strictly a matter of fact, and not determined by today's poll or popularity contest or market value(though there often is a correlation). And, as the saying goes, the truth eventually comes out. Hobby history is full of corrections, factual revelations and continuing research-- often on these Net54 boards.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

I can't believe that SGC certed this.


Attachment 348919

This is listed again, but this time by another Ebay seller.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/163993942816



willieJeterForgery.jpg

[chalupacollects]

Good thing it is only $63 now!

[chaddurbin]

how is that ugly jeter card over $300 now? i hope someone is doing a top-all bid and not intending to pay.