1951 Bowman Mantle or....

[blinkme323]

Hey guys,

I'm currently weighing the option on three cards right now and was hoping you could lend some insight as to what you would choose. All would be low-grade acquisitions, with the possible exception of the Jordan (and my apologies for mixing up eras / sports in this one).

1933 Goudey Ruth (likely a 144)
1951 Bowman Mantle
1984-85 Star 181 Jordan

I'm leaning towards the Mantle, but the others have obvious merits as well.

Thanks!

[Bigdaddy]

Always bet on The Mick. Ruth second, Jordan a distant third.

[JohnnyFinance7]

I'm actually in the same boat as you and I've decided to go with the Babe. I figure, I can always go back and pick up the Mantle/ Jordan at a later date. Good luck.

[BLongley]

I own Ruth Goudeys and a 51 Bowman Mantle, the Mantle cards seem to be cooling off a bit here so your money may go further today on that card than it would on a Ruth which is fairly hot right now. In regards to the Jordan, I own his fleer rookie, but have stayed away from the Star....reason being you will notice that only Beckett grades them and they do it purely for the money, because after the cards became popular the owner of Star still had the original printing plates and began printing them again in the early 90s and it's impossible to tell if you're buying an original or a reprint... PSA and SGC can't tell so they won't touch them... I am not interested in spending a good chunk of money on something that may be a reprint....

[rats60]

I would go with the Ruth. 33 Goudey Ruths and t206 Cobbs would be my top 2 choices with the Bowman Mantle RC being third.

[packs]

I have both Mantle and Ruth. For me, the Mantle was more exciting:

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

I personally would love to own a 51 Bowman Mantle. It is one of my favorites.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[packs]

I had a lot more fun chasing the Mantle down than the Ruth. There are a million Goudeys and there doesn't seem to be any universal defect when it comes to the Goudey Ruths. It took me a long, long time to find a Mantle that was in "collector grade" condition, that was also centered, without back damage or stray marks, and within my budget. I felt much more accomplished when I finally did find that example.

[irv]

Personally, as I currently don't own anything Ruth, I'd go that route, but owning a 51 Mantle also has it's appeal.

Likely, if both cards were priced somewhat close, I'd pick the best looking one of the 2.

Good luck with your decision.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Ruth, easy choice for me if one has to choose.

[pokerplyr80]

You really can't go wrong with any of the three. I'd sell my Ruth before I'd let my Mantle rc go. I couldn't find a scan of the Ruth, but here's the Mantle.

[blinkme323]

Thanks for all of the insight guys! I ended up pulling the trigger on a really nice Mantle last night. I'll post some pics when it is in hand.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by BLongley

In regards to the Jordan, I own his fleer rookie, but have stayed away from the Star....reason being you will notice that only Beckett grades them and they do it purely for the money, because after the cards became popular the owner of Star still had the original printing plates and began printing them again in the early 90s and it's impossible to tell if you're buying an original or a reprint....

Hasn't that been discounted as BS? STAR Jordan cards were reprinted years later with the original plates, yet there are still only a few hundred total that have ever been graded? That doesn't compute. From a purely speculative financial consideration, the Jordan card may be the best option. If PSA ever does start grading them, the card would explode in value above what they command now, IMO.

Anyway, of the three cards listed, I would go with Ruth in a heartbeat over the other two because...it's Babe Ruth.

[Neal]

Ruth
I have never ever sold a Ruth (now have three) but have sold Mantles, including a 51.

Tough call on either, can't go wrong with those choices …. unless the choice is for a Star Jordan. PASS

[BLongley]

I have not heard it to be BS, and PSA did grade one.... one of the members here has it...it's the only one they ever graded and did so a few years ago...and decided against ever doing so again due to the reprint risk. It certainly seems that there is no proof that they weren't reprinted, if you buy it in the original bag it was distributed in I guess is the only way to know for sure it's original.

Originally Posted by Bored5000

Hasn't that been discounted as BS? STAR Jordan cards were reprinted years later with the original plates, yet there are still only a few hundred total that have ever been graded? That doesn't compute. From a purely speculative financial consideration, the Jordan card may be the best option. If PSA ever does start grading them, the card would explode in value above what they command now, IMO.

Anyway, of the three cards listed, I would go with Ruth in a heartbeat over the other two because...it's Babe Ruth.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by BLongley

I have not heard it to be BS, and PSA did grade one.... one of the members here has it...it's the only one they ever graded and did so a few years ago...and decided against ever doing so again due to the reprint risk. It certainly seems that there is no proof that they weren't reprinted, if you buy it in the original bag it was distributed in I guess is the only way to know for sure it's original.

I completely understand the concern about the Jordan 101 Star card, so I am not trying to be snarky. But I do wonder about why the graded population of them is not higher if there are so many undetectable reprints of them out there. Getting a Jordan 101 card (especially in higher grades) into a holder would be like printing money.

https://jordancards.com/blog/the-rea...rt-steve-taft/

[BLongley]

I completely agree with that thought... it seems only a few hundred graded, and it doesn't make sense...

Originally Posted by Bored5000

I completely understand the concern about the Jordan 101 Star card, so I am not trying to be snarky. But I do wonder about why the graded population of them is not higher if there are so many undetectable reprints of them out there. Getting a Jordan 101 card (especially in higher grades) into a holder would be like printing money.

https://jordancards.com/blog/the-rea...rt-steve-taft/

[Peter_Spaeth]

Multiple people have told me the reason PSA stopped grading is not that new ones were being run off printing plates, but that they had inadvertently graded some "Type II" cards -- preproduction samples never intended for distribution -- and were concerned they could not tell the difference.

[packs]

Call me simple but it seems to me that the explanation for there not being too many of them graded is that none of the companies will grade them.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

Call me simple but it seems to me that the explanation for there not being too many of them graded is that none of the companies will grade them.

Beckett grades them, so that does not explain it. There are tons of Beckett-graded Star cards.

[packs]

Tons but not enough?

[CW]

Get all three!

But maybe replace the Star Jordan with his 86 Fleer RC. You get a better pose on the Fleer, it's cheaper (relative to the Star), and the Star is almost always found OC with distracting tilt.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Or get the 85 Jordan, still a year before his supposed rookie.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by packs

Call me simple but it seems to me that the explanation for there not being too many of them graded is that none of the companies will grade them.

From looking at the last auction sale prices on eBay, the Jordan Star 101 is an $18,000 card in BGS 9, an $8,500 card in BGS 8.5 and a $5,500 card as a BGS 8 right now, yet even Beckett has graded many multiples of the '86 Fleer card. Even a mid-range Jordan 101 is a $2,000 card, yet less than 1,000 of them have been graded by the only company that grades them? PSA alone has graded 17,000 of the Jordan Fleer card.

If undetectable reprints were out there, those kind of prices would bring them out to be graded, IMO.

[packs]

Maybe nobody kept the reprints because they were reprints.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

Hasn't that been discounted as BS? STAR Jordan cards were reprinted years later with the original plates, yet there are still only a few hundred total that have ever been graded? That doesn't compute. From a purely speculative financial consideration, the Jordan card may be the best option. If PSA ever does start grading them, the card would explode in value above what they command now, IMO.

Anyway, of the three cards listed, I would go with Ruth in a heartbeat over the other two because...it's Babe Ruth.

It seems I have heard a dozen rumors over the years that PSA was going to start grading these. I think they're probably started by people wanting to push the values up.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by packs

Maybe nobody kept the reprints because they were reprints.

If it was impossible to distinguish from the original, how would they know? There are many different baseball reprints that are decades old and people still kept them.

One unfortunate truth about the hobby is that if it is possible to scam someone, reprints certainly would have been kept and used to fleece unsuspecting buyers.

[packs]

No doubt about that.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by blinkme323

Thanks for all of the insight guys! I ended up pulling the trigger on a really nice Mantle last night. I'll post some pics when it is in hand.

Congrats. It is a great looking card in hand, and there always seem to be a few Goudey Ruths around. Should be some available when you're ready.

[blinkme323]

Just got this in hand and I’m very happy. Heck of a deal too I think. Thanks everyone!!

[CW]

Congrats! You don't mess around.

One down, two to go!

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Multiple people have told me the reason PSA stopped grading is not that new ones were being run off printing plates, but that they had inadvertently graded some "Type II" cards -- preproduction samples never intended for distribution -- and were concerned they could not tell the difference.

The reprinting of the XRC was myth.

They were printing more from original plates but never the 101. It is completely and utterly false.

Don West was selling the reprints but they are the Lite set and the Crunch and Munch cards. I would also steer clear of any of the blue bordered "olympic team" rookies with the NBA logo in the basketball (not the 1984 blue bordered 5X7s, those are real and in my mind the true rookie as the issue date was the earliest). Those are all printed later around 97' Those Olympic cards were the basis of the NBA v Shop at home lawsuit that exposed it.