1902 Pittsburgh Pirates Team Card

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Posted By: Phil Garry

I am asking for some help here in providing me with any known information on the below ebay item that I purchased last week from a very reputable ebay seller and just received in the mail today. This seller deals with mainly high-end Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb & Honus Wagner early 20th century collectibles on a regular basis.

The auction does not show a scan of the back of the item but it is blank with 15 player names written in pencil. Paper stock feels like a postcard and is definitely not photo paper nor is the surface glossy and at least two of the edges have been trimmed. I have already confirmed via research that the team pictured is the 1902 Pittsburgh Pirates and I can identify the players.

Based on the appearance of the item, I am guessing it was either a team issued promo as stated in the ebay seller's description or some type of W-UNC cut out similar to W555's, etc. Size of the item is approximately 3 1/4" X 5".

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=180215446416&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=008

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Posted By: Phil Garry

BUMP. Anybody have any information on this piece?

Thanks

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Posted By: barrysloate

Phil- doesn't look familiar.

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Posted By: Darren

Very cool piece. This is the first time I've seen that photo. Many of those players are easily identifiable.

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Posted By: Rhys

In case you are wondering the history of it, I bought it last year at the National Convention from Autograph Dealer Kevin Keating with several News Service photos and a few signatures I bought from him. I sold it late last year on ebay to the person you bought it from. It is a cool pice and I was thinking it was too large to be any type of premium piece assciated with a Strip Card set but have always thought it was an advertising card of some sort or even an early novelty card similar to Exhibits 19 years later.

[Archive]

Posted By: Phil Garry

Rhys:

Thank you very much for your input. Hopefully, it well help my efforts.

[pawpawdiv9]

i just ran across it again for auction.
and trying to find info, led me here. LOL
http://www.ebay.com/itm/190874775632...84.m1438.l2649


Heres some things i found:
A 1902 pin, champion pennant winners
http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/...2012/1142.html
Then browsing on Ebay..someone was selling reprints of the exact same photo
and showed the trimmed borders (untrimmed) saying:
Pittsburgh Pirates - 1902 National League Champions
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pittsburgh-P...item518072790e

Follow up with some past Hunt auctions of 1901 and 1903 team photos i found this:
1903 Pittsburgh Pirates team supplement photograph. Matted and framed 9"x13 1/2" printed photographic display piece picturing the NL Champion Pirates posed in a studio setting. Players are identified along with the team in the bottom margin and include Wagner, Clarke, Phillippe, and Branfield. Very seldom offered image was originally issued as a supplement to the Pittsburg Sunday Press.
http://www.huntauctions.com/online/i...m=27&lot_qual=


and 1901 team photo: http://www.huntauctions.com/online/i...m=25&lot_qual=

[bcbgcbrcb]

Lots of good information there, Chris. I think the key to this piece is determining exactly what it is and where it came from. I don't think there is anyone disputing the subject matter.

[pawpawdiv9]

Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb

Lots of good information there, Chris. I think the key to this piece is determining exactly what it is and where it came from. I don't think there is anyone disputing the subject matter.

Yeah, i was trying to figure what it was..theres mention? postcard maybe, photo maybe? then i found it could be a newspaper suplement just based on other team photos and to find the cut off border and found what it was---which i did find

[pawpawdiv9]

Info Update from Greg S,
Back in 2013, after Chris bumped this thread, I made efforts to establish the purpose of the photo and got nowhere despite help from two libraries in Pittsburgh as well as an archivist at the Hall of Fame.



It was not until the last REA auction where I noticed the same image used for a 1903 supplement from the Pittsburg Gazette, https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com...e?itemid=50959. Now that I had the purpose of the photo it provided me just enough motivation to find out the identity of the photographer. Someone from REA provided me with a close up of the signature however as you can see when the Gazette went to print they cropped the bottom half of the name.



Over the following weeks I reached out directly and indirectly to several hobby photo experts who were not able to provide any help in my endeavor. I went back to the Hall of Fame and a research library at the University of Pittsburgh hoping that knowing the purpose of the photo would give them enough info to help me identify the photographer. Neither could help me with an id but the library was certain he was not a Gazette photographer.



Over the last 2 days I decided to start looking through Yahoo and Google at other studio photos of the team from 1901 to 1904. I found two photos that appeared to have been shot in the same studio and had full signatures however they were not 100% clear. http://www.hardwickfamily.com/storie...pi/1901team-2/ and the other on Pinterest . The signature either appeared to be D’Rosset or D. Rosser. In an earlier REA auction, Rob had another 1901 Pittsburg team photo, http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/...-honus-wagner/ in which he could not make out the signature but he stated it appeared to be D’Rouse.



In searching deeper I found reference in several publications from the early 1900s referring to a local Pittsburgh photographer by the name of David Rosser. I also found a mention of D. Rosser by Peter Nash in his book, Boston’s Royal Rooters. . Eventually my digging found an entry in the Library of Congress’ Catalogue of Copyright Entries, https://books.google.com/books?id=Hv...201901&f=false.



And thanks to Barbara Langdon of Langdonroad.com, who was able to confirm an address for Rosser:

Rosser, D & Co, photo 347 5th av, D Rosser, H O. Baird, (1902) Polk's Pittsburgh and Allegheny Directory

Rosser, David of D Rosser & Co, 347 5th av, h Knoxville, PA (1902) Polk's Pittsburgh and Allegheny Directory



David Rosser died on 1/1/21 at 52 years old

Actual Photo (from Greg S.)




***All this updated Information was Provided by Greg S. *********

[BeanTown]

Chris, That is really good research and thanks for updating.

[pawpawdiv9]

Originally Posted by BeanTown

Chris, That is really good research and thanks for updating.

The thanks goes to Greg S., whom was a fellow board member. He just wanted to include some new info he had and all I did was update on Net54.
It is a tad interesting when you dig into it tho.

[h2oya311]

I was the consignor of the 1902-03 Pittsburgh Gazette Team Supplement that was recently auctioned at REA. I had no idea that there was a 3-1/4" x 5" card that also exists that utilizes this same image.

This is important to the "Earliest image of a HOFer" camp (the few of us that actually care) because it features the earliest image of Barney Dreyfuss. Who cares about those other guys in the image (e.g., Wagner, Chesbro, Clarke)? It's all about Dreyfuss!

Very good info and thanks for bumping this thread back to the top.