Selling raw vintage ... what's a good price?

[wdwfan]

First of all, I'm not sure if this is in the right place or not. If it's not, please move it to where it needs to go. Thanks.

Here's my questions...
I'm fairly new into vintage (been collecting since August) and have been trying to sell off some of my vintage doubles as well as other cards/lots from years I don't like. But I'm having trouble, and I'm looking for help from vintage experts.

What's a good percentage to sell cards at? I'm talking 1975 and older. I checked ebay, and it seems most of the big boys list Vg-Ex to Ex stuff at 30% of BV or higher. I know that's ebay, and you can't get that on places like BO, SCF and Net54.

I started listing at 25% of BV with no takers and then dropped below that a little bit. Now I'm down to 20% of BV and still can't get any takers. So what am I missing?

I'll use one of my cards as an example. It's a 1966 Topps Hank Aaron (BV $120). I started it at $40, got no takers, dropped it to $30 and got no takers and am now down to $28 (less if you buy it as part of the lot it's in). So I can't move it for 20% or less than BV.

So what's a good percentage? Or am I missing another variable that I'm not aware of. Sometimes I wonder if it's because I'm not selling big names. But in the case of the Aaron, that's not the case. So not sure what the deal is. Any help would be appreciated because I'm setting up in a show in Dallas in about a month and need to know what to price all my vintage cards at. Thanks.

[bnorth]

The biggest problem I see with people using book value is they are using book value of NrMint cards and selling cards in VG condition. Are you doing this or are you using the book value for the condition your cards are really in?

I rarely sell but for buying I go to eBay and use the sold listings. I offer around 75%-90% of what similar condition cards sold for. You could do the same for pricing to sell.

[Cozumeleno]

Book or a percentage of book doesn't work the same for everything. Your best bet is to run searches on completed eBay sales to see what cards similar to yours have sold for. If you're selling on eBay, in particular, that's always going to be your best bet.

[x2drich2000]

Please take the following as some constructive criticism.

I would forget using a percentage of book value like Beckett. This may have been the best approach years ago, but I believe a much better way to price raw cards in today's environment is to figure out what you believe the grade is and then look at recently completed sales from Ebay, VCP, or PSA's auction values (https://www.psacard.com/auctionprices/) for graded cards and then subtract a certain percent to reflect that your card is not graded (or look at the value of the card a grade or 2 lower for comparison). That is what I would expect to get. Obviously, you want to maximize what you get as much as possible and also leave room for negotiating/discounts/fees/etc when pricing your card at a show.

The biggest issue with this approach is you need to properly grade your cards. Unfortunately, the only way to learn that is by handling a lot of cards and also by being critical of what you have. This is not always an easy thing to do as we tend to think the best of what is ours. Looking at the Aaron you have on the BST (and the front only), I think this probably would only grade a 2 (Good) due to multiple creases/wrinkles, surface issues, soft corners, etc. I don't think this card would be considered anywhere near VG/EX. For comparison, here's your card and a PSA 4. With this in mind I would probably price the Aaron at $25-30 and jump at any offer over $20, maybe even a little less if the customer is buying more stuff.

[wdwfan]

bnorth, the book I have only has a high and low BV. It's the annual vintage book that comes out. So that's why I go off of.

cozumeleno, I could see doing that for a couple of the bigger cards/stars or for graded. But I don't deal in graded, it's all raw. Plus, I'm pricing a couple of thousands of cards for an upcoming show. So don't want to take the hours upon hours to check out each $5 BV card to see what it sells for. Would rather just throw them all in a $1 box or a $2 box, etc.


x2drich2000, thanks for the help. That Aaron was the first big vintage card I bought after getting into vintage about 4-5 months, and I was told it was in Ex condition.

It does have a very small surface issue on the left side just under the word Braves. The seller said it didn't go all the way through the card, so it's not technically a crease. It's more an indentation or a bend. I know it also has some soft corners and is off centered.

That's why I listed it as VG and at $28. I figured someone might throw that for a VG condition card that books for $120. But still learning, and I've been trying tto learn since picking up my first vintage card about 4 months ago. It seems vintage is a lot tougher to sell/trade/move and figure up condition than modern ever was.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by wdwfan

bnorth, the book I have only has a high and low BV. It's the annual vintage book that comes out. So that's why I go off of.

Usually when it is just listed as high and low that is the price range for NrMint cards. This is just a general rule but try this as a start.

NrMint 100%
ExMint 50-75%
Ex 30-50%
Vg 15-30%
G/F/P 5-15%

Hope this helps.

[wdwfan]

It does. Thank you.

Originally Posted by bnorth

Usually when it is just listed as high and low that is the price range for NrMint cards. This is just a general rule but try this as a start.

NrMint 100%
ExMint 50-75%
Ex 30-50%
Vg 15-30%
G/F/P 5-15%

Hope this helps.

[Cozumeleno]

Originally Posted by wdwfan

cozumeleno, I could see doing that for a couple of the bigger cards/stars or for graded. But I don't deal in graded, it's all raw. Plus, I'm pricing a couple of thousands of cards for an upcoming show. So don't want to take the hours upon hours to check out each $5 BV card to see what it sells for. Would rather just throw them all in a $1 box or a $2 box, etc.

Oh yeah, for sure. Anything under like $15, I wouldn't recommend that for. Not worth your time. But eBay's completed sales are generally a good indicator for standard vintage like that and there should be plenty of raw examples to compare with. Prices do fluctuate a little based on who's watching and what not. But that will be much more representative than any price guide.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by wdwfan

That Aaron was the first big vintage card I bought after getting into vintage about 4-5 months, and I was told it was in Ex condition.

Then I would strongly advise you to stop everything and learn the grades before you proceed. A proper grasp on grading is imperative to buying and selling raw, otherwise you're going to get burned on both ends.

[Fred]

What is considered "book value" (BV)? Would that be NRMT? EXMT? What's the starting point?

[wdwfan]

Problem is I didn't see the card until it arrived. Then it was too late. The buyer told me it was Ex. Since it was my first purchase, I took thier word for it.

Originally Posted by conor912

Then I would strongly advise you to stop everything and learn the grades before you proceed. A proper grasp on grading is imperative to buying and selling raw, otherwise you're going to get burned on both ends.

[glynparson]

Everything is card by card there is absolutely not some magic percentage at which all things sell, well maybe 0% you can surely move everything. You just have to research each item individually. Nice pics and a reputation as an honest seller will help you eventually get more for your offerings. Good luck in your future dealings.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by glynparson

well maybe 0% you can surely move everything.

You haven't tried giving away late 80s commons, have you?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Fred

What is considered "book value" (BV)? Would that be NRMT? EXMT? What's the starting point?

I think book value is usually NRMT condition when they speak of it. And then the percentage of book. If I get 15-20% on my commons, or even mid tier HOF'ers, I am usually happy. There are too many 50s-70s Topps, in avg condition, for the number of collectors and the issue isn't getting better. Just my half cent.

[Rrrlyons]

I will repeat what most people are saying don't go to the "book" first go to eBay do a search on a card if you don't really know and the sales will give you range.
A search on that card shows at least 20 cards that have sold in the last month in that condition from $4.31-$20 most in $15 range. Rick

[Fred]

If NRMT is the BV starting point, then 15% on commons in VG shape is actually a pretty good sell price for most cards that are abundantly available.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by conor912

Then I would strongly advise you to stop everything and learn the grades before you proceed. A proper grasp on grading is imperative to buying and selling raw, otherwise you're going to get burned on both ends.

And before buying raw vintage in supposedly NrMt or better, learn the tricks of the card doctors. A loupe to view the edges is a good start--they should re rough, not razor sharp, and not pinched at the corners. Also learn what the printing dot patterns should look like.

Happy hunting,

Larry

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by Leon

I think book value is usually NRMT condition when they speak of it. And then the percentage of book. If I get 15-20% on my commons, or even mid tier HOF'ers, I am usually happy. There are too many 50s-70s Topps, in avg condition, for the number of collectors and the issue isn't getting better. Just my half cent.

Absolutely +1 re the last sentence above!

Highest regards,

Larry

[wdwfan]

Originally Posted by Leon

There are too many 50s-70s Topps, in avg condition, for the number of collectors and the issue isn't getting better. Just my half cent.

I think you posted something about this on a thread over on Blowout. As a new collector to vintage, is this something that should concern me? Right now I'm trying to build my collection of average 50s-70s. Is that something that should be avoided? I've been going back-and-forth on what and how I want to collect to be honest. Now this makes me even more nervous.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by wdwfan

I think you posted something about this on a thread over on Blowout. As a new collector to vintage, is this something that should concern me? Right now I'm trying to build my collection of average 50s-70s. Is that something that should be avoided? I've been going back-and-forth on what and how I want to collect to be honest. Now this makes me even more nervous.

As long as you buy it right, and have fun doing it, you will be ok. Use realized prices on ebay, and wherever else, as to what the market is especially for those low-mid grade Topps cards. When I first started setting up at shows a few years ago I bought a lot of groups of those average 50s-60s Topps in many different places. Sometimes I did pretty good and other times not so much. I probably still have 4000-5000 just hanging out behind me in a corner.

[wdwfan]

Good to know. Right now I've been buying Ex or better (or trying to buy that condition) from the late 1950s-mid 1970s. I've been trying to decide which year(s) I wanted to build sets from.

Then I was told at my LCS that the 70s cards are worthless no matter the grade and to focus on 50s-1965. So, that's kind of what I've been doing. That's why I decided against finishing the 71 set (had about half) and 74 set (had about 610 different).

Originally Posted by Leon

As long as you buy it right, and have fun doing it, you will be ok. Use realized prices on ebay, and wherever else, as to what the market is especially for those low-mid grade Topps cards. When I first started setting up at shows a few years ago I bought a lot of groups of those average 50s-60s Topps in many different places. Sometimes I did pretty good and other times not so much. I probably still have 4000-5000 just hanging out behind me in a corner.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by wdwfan

Good to know. Right now I've been buying Ex or better (or trying to buy that condition) from the late 1950s-mid 1970s. I've been trying to decide which year(s) I wanted to build sets from.

Then I was told at my LCS that the 70s cards are worthless no matter the grade and to focus on 50s-1965. So, that's kind of what I've been doing. That's why I decided against finishing the 71 set (had about half) and 74 set (had about 610 different).

Worthless is great as long as you are buying for enjoyment. I remember back in the 80's except for a few players the cards from the mid 50's and 60's were considered junk like the junk wax era cards are now.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Leon

As long as you buy it right, and have fun doing it, you will be ok. Use realized prices on ebay, and wherever else, as to what the market is especially for those low-mid grade Topps cards. When I first started setting up at shows a few years ago I bought a lot of groups of those average 50s-60s Topps in many different places. Sometimes I did pretty good and other times not so much. I probably still have 4000-5000 just hanging out behind me in a corner.

I actually love the mid-grade stuff fro the 50's I find I can move it quite fast, and can usually buy it right. That of course is the key. If you overpay you can't make a profit. Easy game, huh?

[wdwfan]

As is with everything. I've been trying to pick up lots here and there. Found a few for like 15-20% of BV. I'm not really into moving it quite fast. I don't even mind losing money (like I did with the 66T Aaron). I just go back and forth on what I want to do. Part of collecting I guess.

For instance, my uncle used to have a set of 1962T baseball, and I loved, loved, loved looking at that set. Well I decided in November to try and build one of those. Thinking about giving up on it now. I've been working on it for 4 months and am not even halfway through with it, and it's driving me nuts. I'm a sprinter. I like to finish stuff now if not quicker. I can't stand that it takes months to put a set together.

But like I said, I've been trying to buy lots for good prices (15-20% of BV) just to see what I want to try and build. I'm up to a decent amount of 59s, 61s and 63s. So maybe one of those will be my next quest. With that in mind, I might just put the 62s in the closet for now and try to work on something else.

Always evolving. Guess I'm weird like that.

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I actually love the mid-grade stuff fro the 50's I find I can move it quite fast, and can usually buy it right. That of course is the key. If you overpay you can't make a profit. Easy game, huh?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by wdwfan

As is with everything. I've been trying to pick up lots here and there. Found a few for like 15-20% of BV. I'm not really into moving it quite fast. I don't even mind losing money (like I did with the 66T Aaron). I just go back and forth on what I want to do. Part of collecting I guess.

For instance, my uncle used to have a set of 1962T baseball, and I loved, loved, loved looking at that set. Well I decided in November to try and build one of those. Thinking about giving up on it now. I've been working on it for 4 months and am not even halfway through with it, and it's driving me nuts. I'm a sprinter. I like to finish stuff now if not quicker. I can't stand that it takes months to put a set together.

But like I said, I've been trying to buy lots for good prices (15-20% of BV) just to see what I want to try and build. I'm up to a decent amount of 59s, 61s and 63s. So maybe one of those will be my next quest. With that in mind, I might just put the 62s in the closet for now and try to work on something else.

Always evolving. Guess I'm weird like that.

It is usually way cheaper to buy sets already completed. Besides the cards themselves being cheaper you will save a bundle on shipping.

If you are paying 15-20% of BV please hook me up, that would be awesome.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by wdwfan

As is with everything. I've been trying to pick up lots here and there. Found a few for like 15-20% of BV. I'm not really into moving it quite fast. I don't even mind losing money (like I did with the 66T Aaron). I just go back and forth on what I want to do. Part of collecting I guess.

For instance, my uncle used to have a set of 1962T baseball, and I loved, loved, loved looking at that set. Well I decided in November to try and build one of those. Thinking about giving up on it now. I've been working on it for 4 months and am not even halfway through with it, and it's driving me nuts. I'm a sprinter. I like to finish stuff now if not quicker. I can't stand that it takes months to put a set together.

But like I said, I've been trying to buy lots for good prices (15-20% of BV) just to see what I want to try and build. I'm up to a decent amount of 59s, 61s and 63s. So maybe one of those will be my next quest. With that in mind, I might just put the 62s in the closet for now and try to work on something else.

Always evolving. Guess I'm weird like that.

I think mid-grade post war cards will always have a place as the gateway drug to vintage collecting.

From what I'm hearing, I would put selling on the back burner for now and just collect whatever catches your eye for a while to get a feel for the hobby and market. It sounds like right now you're the anxious bull calf at the top of the bluff trying to convince his dad to run down into the valley to f*** one of the cows. That said, if you're ok with losing some money and learning some hard lessons, then by all means keep up your current pace.

[wdwfan]

Yea, as I said, I try to build something. If I can't do it in a few months, I think about selling. But with the 62s, I just stuck them in the closet tonight. It'll be that way with other sets too. Some day I might pull them back out and add some to it and slowly chip away. But I've been buying lots to get a feel for what I like.

As far as losing money, that only happened on the Aaron. I was told it was Ex, and that's why I lost money. Obviously, it wasn't and was more like VG to VG-Ex.

Anyway, I'm overall happy with where my collection is at. But I've gotten a lot of good advice on this thread, which is kind of what I need at this point in my collecting.

Originally Posted by conor912

I think mid-grade post war cards will always have a place as the gateway drug to vintage collecting.

From what I'm hearing, I would put selling on the back burner for now and just collect whatever catches your eye for a while to get a feel for the hobby and market. It sounds like right now you're the anxious bull calf at the top of the bluff trying to convince his dad to run down into the valley to f*** one of the cows. That said, if you're ok with losing some money and learning some hard lessons, then by all means keep up your current pace.

[bbcard1]

FWIW, I thought your 1962 highs were attractively priced. I would have bought them had I not previously filled mine out.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by bnorth

It is usually way cheaper to buy sets already completed.

I disagree with this. I usually start with a good partial set and then buy lots from there, selling off unneeded duplicates to fund purchases of key singles etc.... I think my best was a 1971 Topps in EX that cost me net $200 (and a lot of hours) and the lot that got me started was $225!

[mintacular]

Then I was told at my LCS that the 70s cards are worthless no matter the grade and to focus on 50s-1965.

Whoever told you this is an idiot, seek advice elsewhere