Holy Grail of 19th Century Baseball Memorabilia

[GaryPassamonte]

In the past we've had discussions on the card side as to what we considered the Holy Grail of 19th century baseball cards. I don't think this topic has ever been discussed on the memorabilia side and is probably much more difficult to answer. Is it a trophy bat, trophy ball, photograph, uniform or something else?

[barrysloate]

Just to get the ball rolling, one of mine is the mammoth plate photo of the 1860 Brooklyn Excelsiors that resides in the Spalding Collection. I guess the reason it is still there is that it is too big to steal. But I've seen it a number of times in person and it is truly awe inspiring.

I probably could come up with a few others, but that photo suffices.

[jpop43]

Great question, Gary, and one I'm sure that can/will be debated to no end.

That being said, the items that always come to mind for me are the uniform buttons from the original Kinckerbocker Base Ball Club uniform of Lucius "Doc" Adams...the true father of baseball.

These spectacular items are still, thankfully, in the possession of the Adams family and I know that their caretaker couldn't be more protective of them or aware of their historical value.

So, my nod my go to these priceless buttons...the only surviving pieces of uniform from the original Knickerbocker Base Ball Club.

They can be seen here...
http://docadamsbaseball.org/photo-ga...iform-buttons/

Jonathan
www.dugouttreasures.com

[bgar3]

I would like to nominate the Rules of Base Ball manuscript, also related to Doc Adams that was recently auctioned.

[ksfarmboy]

Gary that’s a great question that would be difficult to answer with so many incredible historical items to choose from. Especially difficult compared to cards that multiples exist of what are considered grails. Being a Kansas collector the one item to me that I would consider our grail is the oldest known piece. It’s an 1867 trophy baseball with case. Simply an amazing item to me.

[ooo-ribay]

The San Francisco Giants didn't exist in the 19th century.....ergo, there is no 19th century Holy Grail.

[Jobu]

I don't know nearly as much about 19th century as many of you, but are there any King Kelly game used items known?

[esd10]

I would think any game used or items from the cincinnati red stockings would hold significant value and history

[bgar3]

My nomination was the Laws of Base Ball manuscript documents, but since the sold for an amount beyond the reach of many of us, I am going to second the 1869-70 Red Stockings post as my favorite. It is not game used but it is a cdv of Cal Mcvey in his Cincinnati uniform, just to have an illustration.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

The San Francisco Giants didn't exist in the 19th century.....ergo, there is no 19th century Holy Grail.

Sure they did...
The club began in the NL as the New York Gothams in the 1880s

[sicollector1954]

For me it is only about my personal taste. I saw it when I first entered the hobby and was focusing on vintage memorabilia. And not something I could afford....(now either....lol) It was a vintage belt buckle that was won and awarded to someone if I remember correctly named Charles Force of the Rockford Forest City baseball club in the year 1866 for "good base running". It was sold in a Hunt Auction about 30 years ago or so. Never seen it surface since.

[bgar3]

I know A Giants collector who includes Troy 19th century items, if you really want to go back to early history. Incidentally the 1869 Red Stockings played a number of Games in San Francisco, and a cricket match.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by sicollector1954

For me it is only about my personal taste. I saw it when I first entered the hobby and was focusing on vintage memorabilia. And not something I could afford....(now either....lol) It was a vintage belt buckle that was won and awarded to someone if I remember correctly named Charles Force of the Rockford Forest City baseball club in the year 1866 for "good base running". It was sold in a Hunt Auction about 30 years ago or so. Never seen it surface since.

[gonzo]

The Dauvray Cup could still be out there somewhere.

https://ourgame.mlblogs.com/baseball...e-89867d9fdcfa
https://ourgame.mlblogs.com/baseball...2-f86de62222fe
https://ourgame.mlblogs.com/baseball...-3-f0cf895f892

[bobfreedman]

I know that each person has its own taste but here are a couple of mine, I don’t have the trophy ball any longer unfortunately.

[GaryPassamonte]

Bryan- I believe at least one King Kelly bat has come to auction.

Bob- I wish I had known the silver ball was available.

It is difficult coming up with a 19th century Holy Grail. Most pieces are unique or close to it. The most obvious exception would be Peck and Snyder trade cards and cdvs of the 1869 Cincinnati Red Stockings, if we are to consider them memorabilia and not cards. They are definitely historically significant and obtainable.

[Big Six]

Originally Posted by drcy

Boom! Well there ya have it...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[clydepepper]

Jim Creighton Auto

[Butch7999]

For our little backwater memorabilia niche, the answer is obvious -- an example of either Buckley's Game Board of 1867
or Sebring's Parlor Base-Ball of 1866-1868. Buckley's may have never actually gone into production, but Sebring's was
advertised in major periodicals of the day. Each could lay claim to being the first-ever tabletop baseball game. In both cases,
however, not a single example is known to survive. Having one turn up would be miraculous.

[drcy]

James Creighton game used uniform and bat.

[sicollector1954]

Boom! Who's got it? Come on, fess up....

[drcy]

Originally Posted by sicollector1954

Boom! Who's got it? Come on, fess up....

I owned and resold it, but quite a few years back. I believe Leland's won it from me. I haven't seen it or seen it for sale since, and didn't see Leland's offer it for auction.

[jbsports33]

Collection of unused D&M stuff, gloves - bats - catalogs - signs

the items on display in NH are not to bad either - if someone found stuff like that it would be a big find! but that is what makes the hunt fun, much of the early stuff was tossed out - cards are much easier to store around

Many old sporting goods stores had been cleaned out, so really clean examples can be hard to find

Thanks for coming up with this idea, and there would be many gems to list - but that was the first on my list anyways

Jimmy

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by drcy

James Creighton game used uniform and bat.

I live around the corner from Jim Creighton's lifetime home (307 Henry Street) and down the street from the Brooklyn Excelsior clubhouse (133 Clinton Street) where he spent much of his leisure time. Always wondered if any memorabilia is hidden in the walls. Probably not, because both buildings have likely been renovated more than once since the 1860's.

[Scott Garner]

For me, definitely a ticket stub to George W. Bradley's no-hitter.
This was the first no-hitter pitched in the National League.

[SAllen2556]

Here's one just for fun and intrigue!

Back in 1887, the Detroits won the championship. This medal was given to each player and I think only about 4 survive.

Lady_Baldwin_Medal_medium.jpg

But the real holy grail is the Dauvray Cup.

(Copied and pasted from Fox Sports)
Back in the 1880s, a highly regarded actress named Helen Dauvray (born Ida Louis Gibson some time around 1860, give or take) commissioned an ornate winner’s trophy to be presented to the winner of an exhibition between the winners of the National League and the American Association, sort of a proto-World Series, 16 years before the real thing.

While in England she was an enthusiast over cricket, but she thinks base ball an infinitely superior game, and has been surprised to find that there has never been a suitable prize offered to the champion club of the country. The winner of the club will hold it only till captured by another, until one club has held it three times, when it becomes the exclusive property of that club.

The cup will have the form of a true lovers’ cup, and will be about twelve inches high. One face will have etched upon it a picture of a ball game in progress, the figures being in slight relief. Another face will contain a fine figure of a player in position to bat. The third face will be reserved for the inscriptions. Mrs. Dauvray will not present the token in person, and she leaves the arrangement and conditions of the contest entirely to the base ball men.

Alas, the Dauvray Cup was not long for baseball, thanks to that pesky three-wins-and-it’s-yours clause. The Boston Beaneaters, with their third straight “World Championship” win, in 1893, took the Dauvray Cup all for themselves. Thanks to the best efforts of official MLB historian John Thorn, we believe the Dauvray Cup was likely lost for good en route from Newport, Kentucky — where one of the players lived — back to the club’s offices in Boston.

Lost for good? Or not!

From the Detroit Free Press October 1, 1887:

Detroit_Free_Press_Sat__Oct_1__1887_.jpg

[bgar3]

That article reminded me of the Ott and Brewer vase, in a museum but there could be another. I think there was an example of one of the players or a study for the vase. However, as great as all these are, the top for me remains the very foundational documents for baseball, the Laws of Base Ball manuscripts by Doc Adams, Wheaton etc., which sold for well over 3 million.

[GaryPassamonte]

It's hard to argue with that, Bruce.

[Joe_G.]

Isaac Broome, Ott, & Brewer Urn was written about in detail (with picture) by Carlton Hendricks in 2007 here (2 were made, both still exist):

http://www.network54.com/Forum/56713...0/1880s+Statue

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by drcy

I owned and resold it, but quite a few years back. I believe Leland's won it from me. I haven't seen it or seen it for sale since, and didn't see Leland's offer it for auction.

They were both made into 'relic' cards and accidentally mislabeled as 'Cocoa Laboy'.

But really, Dave, I got sick at my stomach when I read your post. Felt like I did when Jackie Smith dropped that pass.