Cool article by PSA on Top 20 rarities

[Snapolit1]

Some of them I knew about, some I hadn't been aware of.

http://www.psacard.com/Lists/Top20Rarities

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

Thanks for sharing! The JJ old mill is my favorite of the bunch with the Baltimore news Ruth 2nd and Goudey Lajoie 3rd.

[tennisguy]

I was surprised the T206 Magie error didn't make the list?

[clydepepper]

While I am sure that the omission was due to the lack of perceived hobby-wide interest and importance, I am still disappointed that the one-of-one 1904 Allegheny cards were not mentioned.

The only cards rarer do not exist at all.



cm

[Baseball Rarities]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

While I am sure that the omission was due to the lack of perceived hobby-wide interest and importance, I am still disappointed that the one-of-one 1904 Allegheny cards were not mentioned.

The only cards rarer do not exist at all.

cm

Not sure if you were being sarcastic or not, but the author stated this at the beginning of the article:

"To make it clear, this list was not assembled with scarcity as the lone factor. Each card combines a level of scarcity with popularity, extreme importance and other factors. There are certainly extreme rarities in existence that are clearly harder to find than several of the entries on the list, but some of them are considered esoteric by hobby standards."

I like the Allegheny cards also, but I understand why they did not include them on the list.

[Sean]

I expected the 1914 CJ Mathewson to make the list.

[drcy]

Rarity is an absolute number, while scarcity is relative (demand versus population). A card can be scarce but not rare (when there is enough demand) and a rare card can be not scarce.

Just saying.

[gnaz01]

The Vezina card surprises me, there's 4-5 on Ebay right now.....

[sbfinley]

I opened the link thinking... "no way I haven't heard of each one." Sure enough I was wrong immediately. Never knew of the Dice Game Mantle before. Thanks for sharing.

[Baseball Rarities]

Originally Posted by gnaz01

The Vezina card surprises me, there's 4-5 on Ebay right now.....

I thought the same thing. They obviously felt compelled to include a hockey card. I do not know vintage hockey very well, but I am sure that there are better choices.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by Baseball Rarities

Not sure if you were being sarcastic or not, but the author stated this at the beginning of the article:

"To make it clear, this list was not assembled with scarcity as the lone factor. Each card combines a level of scarcity with popularity, extreme importance and other factors. There are certainly extreme rarities in existence that are clearly harder to find than several of the entries on the list, but some of them are considered esoteric by hobby standards."

I like the Allegheny cards also, but I understand why they did not include them on the list.

No, I wasn't being sarcastic...just wanted to voice my wish that these ultra rare cards (that I have invested so much in) would get more attention hobby-wide.

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by Baseball Rarities

I thought the same thing. They obviously felt compelled to include a hockey card. I do not know vintage hockey very well, but I am sure that there are better choices.

The Hockey card should have been the Vezina Sweet Caporal postcard. That is the true "Holy Grail" in my opinion. Not only that, the cards are absolutely beautiful (I love the full-body shots of some of the players).

http://www.psacard.com/articles/arti...tor-rick-katzs

[gnaz01]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

The Hockey card should have been the Vezina Sweet Caporal postcard. That is the true "Holy Grail" in my opinion. Not only that, the cards are absolutely beautiful (I love the full-body shots of some of the players).

http://www.psacard.com/articles/arti...tor-rick-katzs

+1 Absolutely

[mrvster]

should have been 100 % on the list......its always a no brainer

[veloce]

Originally Posted by tennisguy

I was surprised the T206 Magie error didn't make the list?

Maybe PSA is embarrassed that they actually lowered the population of Magie by one.

[BeanTown]

All great cards and would have been nice to put a postcard/Exhibit on the list. I'm thinking Rose Cobb or 25 Exhibit Gehrig

[GaryPassamonte]

It's interesting that all four 19th century cards on the list were also our picks from a thread way back in 2009.

[Shoebox]

This will probably be a minority opinion but things like the Mantle Dice game and the Robin Roberts 51 AS are very rare/scarce but the fact that they were never actually distributed to the public even in a very limited form puts them in a different (less desireable/appealing) category for me. The same for T206 proofs and scrap cards. They are interesting and certainly have a lot of historical significance but just isn't the same to me as a rare regional item that survived out in the wild.

[brian1961]

Originally Posted by Shoebox

This will probably be a minority opinion but things like the Mantle Dice game and the Robin Roberts 51 AS are very rare/scarce but the fact that they were never actually distributed to the public even in a very limited form puts them in a different (less desireable/appealing) category for me. The same for T206 proofs and scrap cards. They are interesting and certainly have a lot of historical significance but just isn't the same to me as a rare regional item that survived out in the wild.

Right on, Dustin.

When researching my E-book on a CD, NEVER CHEAPER BY THE DOZEN, as I traced the provenance of some of the banzai regionals, I found the far majority trace their heritage to a significant find of unsold stock, where these leftover prizes were squirreled away by someone who either worked for the company who printed the cards, or worked for the company whose promotion distributed the cards or coins.

In such monumentally rare instances, these eventual PSA 9s did not have to survive out in the wild, but were spared the wild. Then, many years later they were brought to a show, or a dealer was contacted, or the guy got in touch with an auction house and consigned them.

Really, finds are all miraculous in and of themselves, because extremely few people at said factory or printing companies back in the day would have the inclination to save a few of these as souvenirs of the promotion. After all, until the advent of the organised adult hobby around 1969, these little "free prize" trinkets were seen as just "junk" to 99 people out of 100.

For what it's worth, the most cherished pieces in my own collection do trace to one of these "finds". I wrote at length about some of them. Amongst which was the occasion from whence came the hobby's only graded MINT 1954 Wilson Franks Ted Williams. This particular once intended "free prize" sold back in 2002 for $109,638, a world record price for a regional, and deservedly so.

So Dustin, your opinion is by no means a voice in the wilderness. I'm right there with ya. ---Brian Powell

[mrvster]

can't believe "Magie" is not on the list????????????

Dustin, you make some good points.some of these cards on the 20 list are just rarities, and not really issued....even the balty ruth imho

...but when it comes to T206 scraps, I can't see anything(issues or cards) surviving "more of the wild" than a DUMPSTER"

t206 scraps,although not issued, were literary plucked out of the garbage!

where as the T206 proofs were actual "prototypes" and are part of the concepts/design pieces.....these are like you said, more of "pieces of history" like rare cabinets......or small pieces of art, far to rare to have been issued.....it's like comparing one of the "yoda" protypes figurines to one of the mass produced ones bought in walmart in a package

[Bicem]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

While I am sure that the omission was due to the lack of perceived hobby-wide interest and importance, I am still disappointed that the one-of-one 1904 Allegheny cards were not mentioned.

The only cards rarer do not exist at all.



cm

Rare? Yes. Visually appealing? Not so much in my opinion. Would have been shocked to see one included. Which one do you own?

[Baseball Rarities]

Originally Posted by mrvster

Dustin, you make some good points.some of these cards on the 20 list are just rarities, and not really issued....even the balty ruth imho

Out of curiosity, how to you figure that the Ruth was not really issued?

[mrvster]

Thinking Balty Ruth was a promotional item not released to the public along with the other subjects....due to the limited quantities ..... the blue and red issues and subjects surviving......but this is just a hunch.......if they were hand cut, would be a definite..........maybe a few promotional cards released in a similar fashion as the cobb/cobb 206 back??.......it wouldn't be through a salesman????

or....

released for one day in the actual newspaper??? thoughts???

but we have no idea how they were distributed....


this is not my area of expertise, but just a hunch


Kevin, you are a true historian on these

[BeanTown]

Another question I've always had but never really researched it was.... When was the first discovery of a Baltimore Ruth? Is there a story of a find, since the number is under ten? From what I remember REA had the first one ever to go at auction back in early 2000s I thought. Plus the Just So Young was an awesome card and I don't think Its ever been up for auction has it?

Originally Posted by mrvster

Thinking Balty Ruth was a promotional item not released to the public along with the other subjects....due to the limited quantities ..... the blue and red issues and subjects surviving......but this is just a hunch.......if they were hand cut, would be a definite..........maybe a few promotional cards released in a similar fashion as the cobb/cobb 206 back??.......it wouldn't be through a salesman????

or....

released for one day in the actual newspaper??? thoughts???

but we have no idea how they were distributed....


this is not my area of expertise, but just a hunch


Kevin, you are a true historian on these

[baztacula]

What? No Toad Ramsey?

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by Bicem

Rare? Yes. Visually appealing? Not so much in my opinion. Would have been shocked to see one included. Which one do you own?

I own seven of the 104 player cards

[Baseball Rarities]

Originally Posted by mrvster

but we have no idea how they were distributed....

You are right, we do not know how these cards were distributed. There were two backs made for each of the two teams - Baltimore Terrapins (Federal League) and the Baltimore Orioles (International League). While both of the backs contain the teams' schedules, one seems to have been issued by the team while the other looks to have been distributed by the Baltimore News. The Baltimore News version has a space to fill to whom the card was given to, but who knows whom that was supposed to be. The only example that I have seen filled out had the name "Cromwell 14" on it. Your guess is as good as mine.

I have seen 10 different Ruth cards. There was supposedly an 11th card that was literally lost by its owner. The first time that I ever saw one offered was in the late 1980s in an Alan Rosen auction. I believe that card was purchased by Jim Copeland and subsequently sold in the famous 1991 Sotheby's sale. REA had an example in 1997 and Sotheby's sold the Halper example in 1999. I am not aware of any earlier sales than these.

Maybe Dan McKee can chime in. He and his Dad are more familiar with this issue than anyone else that I know.

[oldjudge]

Perhaps the cards were given out as schedules to season ticket holders. I think they are schedules, not cards, but then again if I owned one I might think differently. 😀

[mrvster]

great input!! I know Dan owned 1 or 2 of them!

[Shoebox]

Originally Posted by mrvster

can't believe "Magie" is not on the list????????????

Dustin, you make some good points.some of these cards on the 20 list are just rarities, and not really issued....even the balty ruth imho

...but when it comes to T206 scraps, I can't see anything(issues or cards) surviving "more of the wild" than a DUMPSTER"

t206 scraps,although not issued, were literary plucked out of the garbage!

where as the T206 proofs were actual "prototypes" and are part of the concepts/design pieces.....these are like you said, more of "pieces of history" like rare cabinets......or small pieces of art, far to rare to have been issued.....it's like comparing one of the "yoda" protypes figurines to one of the mass produced ones bought in walmart in a package

Don't mean to disparage T206 scrap as I know you and others love it dearly. But like you said in your Yoda comparison its something from a different category of collectable.

[mrvster]

not at all! every also has a right to their opinion/tastes and I respect your input......

maybe it was a bad analogy.....

artist "prototypes" or "proofs" are used in all aspects of manufacture....


engineers will build a "prototype" to "sell" or "test" a product or machine before the board of directors, the owners of companies, CEO's, ect ect approve the final design to be mass produced......

hot wheels, star wars figures, cars , planes, ect , ect, ect.......all go through this process, as do baseball cards from pre war to post war and modern....

"concepts" to "proto types" to "final design" has many stages usually evolve until the "final end product" is accepted to be mass produced....


artists "concepts" or "proposal to the board" for final approval in either engineering , publication , ect , ect.....



T206 proofs are not your "ordinary printers scrap" (which is oxy moranical) since printer scrap was not "ordinary"....



T206 Proofs are scraps that:

were part of the T206 Design Process , in which the artist / artists used them in the development of the final design of each T206......each "end product" was, in fact, the final image(color, registration, art design, image, ect) of the card.....that's why some T206 proofs(Type 1 as termed by T206RESOUCE) are a little different than the actual final card image.......

so, the historical significance of "proofs" in relation to T206 is immeasurable...

these were concept cards/ "design tools" aiding the co. to develop the final art or product..........

that's why none were meant to be in the publics hands, and is amazing they survived to this day

[mrvster]

you maybe onto something with balty ruth.......I think they were schedules also.....

MAYBE GIVEN TO THE PLAYERS???????? that card "presented to" has me thinking?????

[BeanTown]

Until I hear something different, I'm leaning on agreeing with Jay that it's a schedule which was most likely given out to players or maybe a second a promotion. Interesting that some backs have the "compliments of" with a line to write something, compared to nothing at all. It's also a mystery somewhat as to why we have never seen these come up for sale, auction or be published in a guide for over 65 years after their date. Is there any mention of these in any old trader speaks or other guides?

[Yoda]

Has anybody actually owned or handled an Anson? It must be like having a great work of art. And I think, as the story goes, Old Judge made the card with Cap's head and another player's body. Love these stories.

[BeanTown]

I like the story of how Whitney didn't like pets at all or something along those lines, which makes this a great Old Judge to have!

[mrvster]

great stuff!