Dean's Cards - Deja Vu All Over Again

[Yoda]

There is an avalanche of Ebay cards ending tonight from Dean's. Most all are BIN's, and I just don't understand his pricing model. If he wants year-end clearance and cash flow then he ought to run a straight auction, take his chances and not ask such sky high prices.
On a somewhat related subject, my hit ratio with PWCC has hit an all time low and I am now batting below .100. For example, one the cards on my want list for so long the paper is brown and curled is the M116 Tris Speaker from the last series. To me, Tris looks like a noble young warrior, which he was, ready to do battle on the diamond. Anyhow, the example was a PSA 7 and had all the qualities I wanted. I bid well over a grand and was blown away by a bid three times mine. Anybody have a similar experience?

[kmac32]

Dealt with Deans before and he does discount if you buy directly from his website and not ebay. It is a graduated teir depending on how much you buy.

Kmac

[phikappapsi]

I have also dealt with them in a positive way (though years ago)- for their BIN's that I wasn't willing to go all the way to, I just sent a message with an offer, and have had decent success

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by Yoda

There is an avalanche of Ebay cards ending tonight from Dean's. Most all are BIN's, and I just don't understand his pricing model. If he wants year-end clearance and cash flow then he ought to run a straight auction, take his chances and not ask such sky high prices.

Whose to say he needs/wants cash flow? Just cause he has stuff listed doesn't mean he needs to sell it right now. One thing I've learned in this hobby is there are more people than you would expect who just don't have to sell something all the time. The answer is quite simple, you either pay their price, make an offer, or go find it somewhere else. My guess is he's doing alright since he's been at it for quite a while and yet he's still willing to wait to get the price he wants.

[ALR-bishop]

Add me to the list of people who have done ok with them off line

[JollyElm]

Their slogan is: "Why pay much, much less when you can get fleeced by Dean?"

Every time you see their dumbass red logo on ebay in the list of cards you're looking at (I set up my searches to eliminate that ridiculous pest, but no matter how much Raid you use, some ants still appear), simply check above it or below it to find out what you 'should' be paying for the exact same card...

1969mantledeans.jpg

1966mantledeans.jpg

1963mantledeans.jpg

PATHETIC!!!

[mechanicalman]

I used to be adamantly opposed to buying anything from them, but for some reason, I've found that he undervalues Mathewson relative to other dudes. I recently purchased a nice T206 and T3 from him directly and didn't feel like I got completely hosed.

My only issue is that his eBay scans are downright nuclear and cannot be accurate representations of the cards offered.

[Zan]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Their slogan is: "Why pay much, much less when you can get fleeced by Dean?"

PATHETIC!!!

This demonstration made me laugh. I have purchased one card at market value but it was raw. Maybe the prices are inflated for graded cards only?

[conor912]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Their slogan is: "Why pay much, much less when you can get fleeced by Dean?"

Every time you see their dumbass red logo on ebay in the list of cards you're looking at (I set up my searches to eliminate that ridiculous pest, but no matter how much Raid you use, some ants still appear), simply check above it or below it to find out what you 'should' be paying for the exact same card...

PATHETIC!!!

Jeez. Is an honest guy asking strong prices really your idea of pathetic?

[ALBB]

You cant spell dependable without D E A N

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by conor912

Jeez. Is an honest guy asking strong prices really your idea of pathetic?

I think “Pathetic” refers to the people who buy from Deans when they could get it cheaper without hardly looking. It’s the buyers that keep these overpriced sellers going.

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by conor912

Jeez. Is an honest guy asking strong prices really your idea of pathetic?

Nice narrative using "honest guy" and "strong prices." Really??? He's a complete rip-off artist with his pricing, and it doesn't matter where you go--ebay, Amazon, COMC, etc.--you can't avoid his BS. He has infected everything. Ebay is Pompeii and Dean is the ash from Vesuvius. And the pictures I showed were the result of looking at ebay for a mere 7 seconds. If I spent any time on it, I could post a million other examples of his ridiculousness. If you enjoy paying his laughable prices, feel free and have fun, it's your money. Me? I'll buy the same cards from other sellers at half the price.

[mintacular]

I share the frustration of his inflated priced cards dominating all the major websites

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Their slogan is: "Why pay much, much less when you can get fleeced by Dean?"

Every time you see their dumbass red logo on ebay in the list of cards you're looking at (I set up my searches to eliminate that ridiculous pest, but no matter how much Raid you use, some ants still appear), simply check above it or below it to find out what you 'should' be paying for the exact same card...

Attachment 334146

Attachment 334147

Attachment 334148

PATHETIC!!!

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Nice narrative using "honest guy" and "strong prices." Really??? He's a complete rip-off artist with his pricing, and it doesn't matter where you go--ebay, Amazon, COMC, etc.--you can't avoid his BS. He has infected everything. Ebay is Pompeii and Dean is the ash from Vesuvius. And the pictures I showed were the result of looking at ebay for a mere 7 seconds. If I spent any time on it, I could post a million other examples of his ridiculousness. If you enjoy paying his laughable prices, feel free and have fun, it's your money. Me? I'll buy the same cards from other sellers at half the price.

LOL, maybe they just need to be excited about the price to sell.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Nice narrative using "honest guy" and "strong prices." Really??? He's a complete rip-off artist with his pricing, and it doesn't matter where you go--ebay, Amazon, COMC, etc.--you can't avoid his BS. He has infected everything. Ebay is Pompeii and Dean is the ash from Vesuvius. And the pictures I showed were the result of looking at ebay for a mere 7 seconds. If I spent any time on it, I could post a million other examples of his ridiculousness. If you enjoy paying his laughable prices, feel free and have fun, it's your money. Me? I'll buy the same cards from other sellers at half the price.

Ok. Have a nice day.

[autograf]

I'm with Eric.....search his sold listings and you'll see TONS of stuff sold at ridiculous prices. If people pay that, he'll keep selling at those prices. He's been around a LONG time with the same sales model. Something must be working for him even if it's not for the rest of US.

[RedsFan1941]

prices too high? don't buy from that seller. getting your panties in a bind because his listings "clog up" a website is downright laughable. ignore them and move on. if you visit the BST here for any length of time, you're used to doing that.

[kailes2872]

While I haven’t bought from him, I think back to business school. You have product, price, and service. You win on one and manage the other two. Dean prides himself on having at least one card in every grade for at least the post war issues (product). I have heard that his service is impeccable. His pricing is abhorrent to some - but I guess not everyone buys based upon price. I do, therefore he is out of my consideration set, but enough people value the rest of his business model that he can do it profitably.

I would guess that this is his best time of the year as spouses, significant others, children, etc. want to buy something for Dad. They don’t know the market and he will have what they are looking for. The last thing I would do this time of year is lower prices in that circumstance.

Plus his bubblegum war book was really good.

[ALR-bishop]

Over time I wonder how many threads there have been just like this about Dean, 707, Yepdog and others. Maybe they enjoy annoying the hell out of some people.

[JollyElm]

Well, the OP did name the thread "Dean's Cards - Deja Vu All Over Again," because it is a never ending curiosity as to how that company stays in business.

Decided to do a bit of an experiment, so I searched ebay for a bunch of random star cards that I looked at/for recently, then I decided to sort by "Price + Shipping: highest first" and took some screenshots. Take a wild frickin' guess who kept appearing on top. Anyone? Anyone?


1968 Mantle PSA 7. The top listing isn't for the card alone, it's for the team set...

1968mantlepsa7deans.jpg


1965 Koufax PSA 7. Only two listings...

1965koufaxpsa7deans.jpg


1966 high number rookies PSA. This search was for all PSA graded cards, and Dean-o's is a lower grade than the less expensive ones...

1966591psadeans.jpg


1966 Choo Choo high number PSA 7. Again, our buddy's card is much more expensive than equal and higher graded examples...

1966choochoopsadeans.jpg


1968 Seaver PSA 7...

1968seaverpsadeans.jpg


1966 Mays PSA 7...

1966mayspsa7deans.jpg


1966 Rose PSA 8. The top listing is for an OPC Rose...

1966rosepsa8deans.jpg


For full disclosure, other cards I searched for didn't have anything from this wonderful company listed, so they aren't included here. And most, if not all, of these examples include one or more cards with comparable (if not better) characteristics such as centering.

Mmm...this dead horse meat is getting so tender.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

My only issue is that his eBay scans are downright nuclear and cannot be accurate representations of the cards offered.

That was my thought when I saw the examples posted - the scans are so obviously altered that they alone would cause me to not buy from Dean, never mind the prices.

[SetBuilder]

Dean's is banking on people who have saved/bookmarked his store and browse his eBay storefront as opposed to searching through the eBay listings generally. I'm guessing that some people are weary of buying from sellers they have no prior relationship with and will pay a premium for safety. In my opinion, it is likely an older crowd who have no idea how eBay/PP buyer protections work.

This is honestly the only logical reason I can think of for why people pay these crazy prices for common cards.

[itslarry]

While not baseball, I purchased my 1st pau gasol autograph from him. Talked about 15% of the bin on his website.
Felt it ended up being pretty fair.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I've bought some cards from him at the low end of the price scale where I just didn't care all that much if I was paying $30 instead of $20, and I will say that on raw cards his grading is very solid, but yeah I don't know who (if anyone) is paying these huge premiums for graded cards.

[PowderedH2O]

I have bought some lots from him on a few occasions. He posts photos of every single card and grades every single card. I was pleased with that, and the prices were about the same as everybody else. I didn't buy any star cards, but that's ok. I got what I wanted at a fair price with good service. I think his star cards are priced too high. So, I stay away from those. But, I could say that about 75% of the sellers on ebay, or here for that matter. He can ask any price he wants. He will get my business only when the price is right, which is a couple of times a year.

[pokerplyr80]

Maybe he primarily uses Ebay as an advertisement to direct traffic to his website. I have no idea what he makes but from what I hear it's a fairly large operation. I doubt he really cares what those outraged here think about his prices. And I couldn't care less either.

[familytoad]

I didn’t see any prewar cards in the examples nor much mention of Dean selling them.
A few prewar dealers have high list prices for rare cards. If I wanted them cheaper I don’t know that I could find them.

But...the Topps cards are hawked by *hundreds* of sellers in all different grades, conditions and prices. I’m not certain that he (Dean) needs to be called out for higher asking prices since everyone seems to just want to pay the lowest price.
That means * hundreds * of guys have prices higher than the lowest one.
Do we have to call them out as too high as well?

Skipping over a certain seller doesn’t seem difficult, and despite all the threads complaining about them, they don’t appear willing to lower the prices. I suppose you can keep trying though, since it’s your prerogative, much like it is his (or theirs)

[Luke]

Can someone who has contacted him and got a better deal than his website price please send me a PM? He has a few cards that I'd pull the trigger on if I could knock a decent chunk off the website prices.

[Rhotchkiss]

Deans cards is a non-factor to me; rarely do they come up in my EBay searches, and when they do it’s never a card I want. They do appear to be absurdly expensive though. The one who drives my nuts is davidssportscards. That guy has great stuff and he always comes up on my eBay searches - always (so does TonyTrade, who I know, have done deals with and highly endorse). But the cards listed by davidssportscards are so wicked overpriced (in my opinion) it’s annoying, and I wish ebay would just kick his ass back to Corona, CA (wherever that is). If his prices were even somewhat reasonable, or he would accept reasonable offers, he would have lots of my money (Oh man - W600 Wags, high grade t206s, rare Planks, Jacksons, etc); I mean that green 33 Goudey Ruth SGC 7.5 has been sitting on eBay at that same price for over 3 years. Lower your prices people and let us give you money for cards!!

Ryan Hotchkiss

P.S. I find it near impossible to buy off ebay anymore; all sellers seem to be smoking something with BIN prices and (to their credit) the major auctions (pwcc, probstein) are commanding crazy hammer prices, maybe justifying the silly BIN asks....?

[phikappapsi]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Deans cards is a non-factor to me; rarely do they come up in my EBay searches, and when they do it’s never a card I want. They do appear to be absurdly expensive though. The one who drives my nuts is davidssportscards. That guy has great stuff and he always comes up on my eBay searches - always (so does TonyTrade, who I know, have done deals with and highly endorse). But the cards listed by davidssportscards are so wicked overpriced (in my opinion) it’s annoying, and I wish ebay would just kick his ass back to Corona, CA (wherever that is). If his prices were even somewhat reasonable, or he would accept reasonable offers, he would have lots of my money (Oh man - W600 Wags, high grade t206s, rare Planks, Jacksons, etc); I mean that green 33 Goudey Ruth SGC 7.5 has been sitting on eBay at that same price for over 3 years. Lower your prices people and let us give you money for cards!!

Ryan Hotchkiss

P.S. I find it near impossible to buy off ebay anymore; all sellers seem to be smoking something with BIN prices and (to their credit) the major auctions (pwcc, probstein) are commanding crazy hammer prices, maybe justifying the silly BIN asks....?

I think the reality is, these guys all have deep enough pockets to take on the inventory for long enough periods of time to let demand catch up to scarcity. They all do it, so it clearly must be working. When every collector eventually needs "that last piece" to finish something, they pay up for it; and these guys don't need to trade on volume to stay afloat.

And yeah, auction prices seem to be going up (generally) which in turn makes the prices they sit on come back to reality and seem better than they did 3+ years ago at the same price.

I don't begrudge these guys their pricing power; but I also wish I could justify getting my hands on some of the things they basically have walled off with huge prices.

[ALR-bishop]

I heard that when Dean and Levi and Yep were little guys they had some great cards that had gone up in value so they sold them. But then the value of such cards went up a lot more and they were sorry they had sold them so cheap. So when they got older and got some more neat cards they decided to put them up for sale at really high prices and not sell them unless they got that price, no matter how much people complained about it or made fun of the fact they would not sell them cards at a lower price.

But I have not checked the factual accuracy of this with snopes

[familytoad]

While that would sure make sense if the cards we were talking about were rare, but several examples and the resulting complaints were like 1968 Topps.
(Hundreds of dealers, only one priced the lowest...thereby hundreds of dealers charging too much)

[Roulette44]

Lol

[jchcollins]

Have to agree that Dean's and others (Levi and 707 Sportscards were the original eBay overpriced, non-negotiators on the web with a huge inventory, before them in the days of just websites it seemed to be Bill Henderson who had not so much overpriced, but just so many horribly OVERGRADED cards...I digress) have frustrated me for some time. There have already been countless examples on this thread, but here was mine:

Going after a '67 Topps set - and got my SGC 5.5 Brooks Robinson high number for ~$125. What doest Dean want for a comparable version of the same card on his website - $350 / 315 after a "discount"?

https://www.deanscards.com/p/225346/...rooks-Robinson

I had seen several other things in my search results that just bothered me, so I emailed the link to Dean's in their eBay auctions and pretty much just point blank asked how they stay in business by charging such egregious prices. This is the (no doubt canned) response - although it was within about 5 minutes... I got back:

----------

Hello,

Your input is greatly appreciated. We have gone to great lengths to ensure that our pricing is perfect! As you may know Dean’s Cards has a million cards online. Keeping up with prices of each individual card is beyond the ability of any human, so Dean has developed software that sets and adjusts our prices automatically. These prices are determined by many factors, including the availability of a given card, recent sales, and market prices. Prices which turn out to be high will automatically adjust down to the correct price if they do not sell. Please also realize that we do not negotiate prices. Dean’s Cards has built in volume discounts that take effect when your order reaches $50. This policy allows our customers to rest assured that they are receiving our “best price.”

I hope this all makes sense. Please let us know if you have any other questions or concerns and I would be happy to help. Have a great day.

Thanks,
The Team at Dean’s

----------

Um, ok...I'm sorry but what? "Keeping up with prices of each individual card is beyond the ability of any human..." Uh, no wait - so that would be WRONG - whether you use something as simple as an eBay completed items search, or PSA Auction Prices Realized - or want more detail and pay for a monthly VCP subscription - it IS totally possible in 2018 to keep up with the fair market price of a pretty specific type of card at least in the ballpark condition-wise of what you are looking for. Beyond that for one, I have never seen them obviously reduce card prices month after month if something high-end and ridiculously overpriced sits there forever and does not sell. Maybe it happens, but it would certainly not appear to be a policy. I doubt for the type of cards I collect (usually mid- to lower-grade HOFers from the 1970's and earlier...) that I'll be seeking Dean's out anytime soon. A few months ago, I was part of a card group on Facebook that had to counsel a guy who was new to the group to RETURN cards to Deans, rather than pay the exorbitant prices. I think he had bought a PSA 1 T205 Mathewson for something like $500...I think some of the previous comments here on folks that simply don't know any better - or those that see eBay as some type of "risk" - are applicable. I have no doubt that his customer service skills are good, but sheesh. It's not worth all that, certainly not with the variety that is present either at arm's length - or with eBay - usually within a week's length - for increasingly little risk.

Not to be overly negative, so I will try to end on a high note - I do think that Dean's grading is accurate, (just based on the scale I've seen him use and his descriptions of cards on his site) and I have used his photo resource as a good guide for others who are new to grading. They even have a video on grading which is more or less on the money. The site as a whole is also a pretty decent resource on baseball cards - I guess just because his inventory is apparently so massive.

[youguysplayingcards?]

I have always treated online buying much like in person show buying. When I walk into my local show there are typically 5 types of tables:

1) Won't buy from because carries only new cards
2) Won't buy from because of price
3) Won't buy from because dealer/dealers running table is someone I don't want to deal with
4) Table to check out because I don't know/haven't seen before
5) Someone I will buy from

I only stop at #4 and #5 which saves a lot of time. I utilize this same strategy online which seems to work perfectly. Not sure why everyone gets worked up. I can price my items at 10 times current market or 10 percent of current market--I don't get why other people care that much how people go about selling THEIR stuff. If they are not in your consideration set move along.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by youguysplayingcards?

I have always treated online buying much like in person show buying. When I walk into my local show there are typically 5 types of tables:

1) Won't buy from because carries only new cards
2) Won't buy from because of price
3) Won't buy from because dealer/dealers running table is someone I don't want to deal with
4) Table to check out because I don't know/haven't seen before
5) Someone I will buy from

I only stop at #4 and #5 which saves a lot of time. I utilize this same strategy online which seems to work perfectly. Not sure why everyone gets worked up. I can price my items at 10 times current market or 10 percent of current market--I don't get why other people care that much how people go about selling THEIR stuff. If they are not in your consideration set move along.

In theroy I agree with you 100%. And no, I don't spend a ton of time on it - sorry if my post indicated otherwise. It's just inconcevable to me that someone would get away with those type of prices. I guess for entertainment value, I'm curious to know specifics if indeed Dean does move a substantial volume in grossly overpriced vintage material.

[ajquigs]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Maybe he primarily uses Ebay as an advertisement to direct traffic to his website. I have no idea what he makes but from what I hear it's a fairly large operation. I doubt he really cares what those outraged here think about his prices. And I couldn't care less either.

I always assumed this ^^ about eBay driving other sales.

FWIW, this link to WatchCount shows 700+ items sold on eBay over the past three months. There are some graded and other $50, $100, $200+ cards sold for list price and many $1 to $20 cards ... including single-buyer bulk orders (same transaction time).

http://www.watchcount.com/completed....ans_cards#serp

[mintacular]

I think the people who keep saying that they have the "right" to list the cards at whatever price they choose fail to account for the fact that these listings are clogging up all the major websites (eBay, COMC, etc.) and yes while there are ways to screen them out, why do we have to bend over backwards to do so? Imagine going into a grocery store to buy a can of soup for $2 and is is buried behinds 50 cans of Dean's Split Pea listed at $8, $10 and you have to dig around /spend the time to find the one or two reasonably priced ones at the back of the shelf?

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by mintacular

I think the people who keep saying that they have the "right" to list the cards at whatever price they choose fail to account for the fact that these listings are clogging up all the major websites (eBay, COMC, etc.) and yes while there are ways to screen them out, why do we have to bend over backwards to do so? Imagine going into a grocery store to buy a can of soup for $2 and is is buried behinds 50 cans of Dean's Split Pea listed at $8, $10 and you have to dig around /spend the time to find the one or two reasonably priced ones at the back of the shelf?

Very well put. This more than anything is my problem with Dean's when I look for 50's and 60's HOFers on eBay. By the time I say "You've got to be kidding me..." for the fourth time, I think it's a little ridiculous.

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by mintacular

I think the people who keep saying that they have the "right" to list the cards at whatever price they choose fail to account for the fact that these listings are clogging up all the major websites (eBay, COMC, etc.) and yes while there are ways to screen them out, why do we have to bend over backwards to do so? Imagine going into a grocery store to buy a can of soup for $2 and is is buried behinds 50 cans of Dean's Split Pea listed at $8, $10 and you have to dig around /spend the time to find the one or two reasonably priced ones at the back of the shelf?

I think the idea of this analogy isn't bad except for the fact the cards you are looking for are not hidden behind Dean's. You don't have to move Dean's out of the way to get to your purchase. Dean's, 707's, etc show up in the same way on the shelf (your search) as the cheaper option. Instead what I think you are looking at is more akin to finding the 1 foot section of generic soup when it is between the 8 foot section of Campbell's and the 8 foot section of Progresso. All three types are in front of you, but your eyes see the bigger name companies with more space a lot easier than the small company with little space.

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by mintacular

I think the people who keep saying that they have the "right" to list the cards at whatever price they choose fail to account for the fact that these listings are clogging up all the major websites (eBay, COMC, etc.) and yes while there are ways to screen them out, why do we have to bend over backwards to do so? Imagine going into a grocery store to buy a can of soup for $2 and is is buried behinds 50 cans of Dean's Split Pea listed at $8, $10 and you have to dig around /spend the time to find the one or two reasonably priced ones at the back of the shelf?

As long as those companies are paying to put cards on Ebay, COMC etc. than it's their right to do so. Those companies have a fiduciary responsibility to not limit sales and I'd wager Dean's would have a heck of a law suit if someone was to arbitrarily remove their items without due cause.

Sorry but again this is capitalism and we have to accept the good with the "bad".

regards
rich

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

As long as those companies are paying to put cards on Ebay, COMC etc. than it's their right to do so. Those companies have a fiduciary responsibility to not limit sales and I'd wager Dean's would have a heck of a law suit if someone was to arbitrarily remove their items without due cause.

Sorry but again this is capitalism and we have to accept the good with the "bad".

regards
rich

And in a free society, you have to accept that we have the right to complain about ridiculously "bad" sellers, right?? Plus, can you point out who said they want to "arbitrarily remove their items without due cause"?? I guess everyone else reading this thread missed that post.

[trdcrdkid]

For those wondering about the size and nature of Dean's operation, here is a video from 2013 where he gives a tour of the office in Cincinnati and shows the staff at work. At the time he had 14 employees.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gI75Cei9qXA

[MikeGarcia]

Originally Posted by trdcrdkid

For those wondering about the size and nature of Dean's operation, here is a video from 2013 where he gives a tour of the office in Cincinnati and shows the staff at work. At the time he had 14 employees.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gI75Cei9qXA

...Fourteen paychecks is a big nut to crack....wow...

..

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by MikeGarcia

...Fourteen paychecks is a big nut to crack....wow...

..

Must be doing something right.