51 mantle

[jackson84]

Is it real??

[ullmandds]

looks fake to me

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

looks fake to me

1+

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

looks fake to me

+2

[bobbyw8469]

I don't think that one is real. I mean, it is a real reproduction. But not a real, vintage, original 1951 Bowman Mantle.

[chipperhank44]

Agreed. Mantle's skin color is off and all the aging on the back looks artificial.

[1880nonsports]

likely in the archive (sorry Bruce :-)) - there is thread containing a specific printing "tell" on fake '51 Mantles....... Perhaps a search would yield fruit.

edited to add: In this case however - such diligence might be overkill as there appear to be many flags.

[Leon]

fake corner wear (and no creases or wrinkles with that), fake browning on the edges and centered perfectly....those are some of the issues.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Leon

fake corner wear (and no creases or wrinkles with that), fake browning on the edges and centered perfectly....those are some of the issues.

annoying they put the copyright 1951 on repros

[ALR-bishop]

I have a 1951 Bowman reprint set that I bought from Fritsch several years back before putting together a real one. That reprint set says "reprint 1986" on the back of the cards

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

I have a 1951 Bowman reprint set that I bought from Fritsch several years back before putting together a real one. That reprint set says "reprint 1986" on the back of the cards

yeah that makes more sense....thanks for the input and information...

i am glad i contributed to this thread and note this positive post..

[jackson84]

I bought this card on ebay. The seller was selling as unknown. Paid 47 bucks for it on a no reserve auction. Guess i will just send it in to be graded. Thanks for all tje replies.

[ullmandds]

And waste more money? To each their own?

[asphaltman]

I think the only place I'd be sending it is back to the seller. I think it's pretty safe to say you aren't getting any '51 Mantle for $47 on ebay. Too many people looking that would know what they are doing.

[JustinD]

Jackson -

This is just a friendly welcome and advice. I see you are new to the board and maybe young or just starting out in this. Let me tell you something that I wished I started out with- if something is too good to be true, spend your money on lottery tickets...its a better gamble.

This one and the Mays you posted were worth less than a dollar. You could have maybe spent your money on a mid grade 60s mantle and had a nice card. Till you get the skills to buy the raw cards, stick to graded examples so you know what the real thing looks like.

The seller you bought this from sells only reprints and is currently listing an auto ruth, auto gehrig and a 52 mantle for a dollar. This is your sign friend, if anyone had those cards they would not be looking for a few dollars and stating they are ungraded so they are forced to sell as a reprint. If the seller states reprint anywhere...its a reprint. At least he was nice enough to hide the truth in plain sight. It's like adding a "please" to your bank robbery note to the teller.

Start slow and build friend. There are collectors that collect for 50 years and die without a 51 mantle, that's a expensive piece. Start with the late 60s and work backwards.

This is a friendly board (usually,lol) they will all help you learn and grow.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by jackson84

I bought this card on ebay. The seller was selling as unknown. Paid 47 bucks for it on a no reserve auction. Guess i will just send it in to be graded. Thanks for all tje replies.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/1951-BOWMAN-MI...198?nav=SEARCH

Come on jackson84, tell us, are you the seller?

[iwantitiwinit]

Originally Posted by JustinD

Jackson -

This is just a friendly welcome and advice. I see you are new to the board and maybe young or just starting out in this. Let me tell you something that I wished I started out with- if something is too good to be true, spend your money on lottery tickets...its a better gamble.

This one and the Mays you posted were worth less than a dollar. You could have maybe spent your money on a mid grade 60s mantle and had a nice card. Till you get the skills to buy the raw cards, stick to graded examples so you know what the real thing looks like.

The seller you bought this from sells only reprints and is currently listing an auto ruth, auto gehrig and a 52 mantle for a dollar. This is your sign friend, if anyone had those cards they would not be looking for a few dollars and stating they are ungraded so they are forced to sell as a reprint. If the seller states reprint anywhere...its a reprint. At least he was nice enough to hide the truth in plain sight. It's like adding a "please" to your bank robbery note to the teller.

Start slow and build friend. There are collectors that collect for 50 years and die without a 51 mantle, that's a expensive piece. Start with the late 60s and work backwards.

This is a friendly board (usually,lol) they will all help you learn and grow.

Another tip-off is if the seller has previously listed many graded cards for sale. If he has previously listed graded cards for sale why would this card a potentially high value 51 bowman mantle not be graded? There's a good reason why, that's because its fake.

[bobbyw8469]

Great post above me! As far as sending that Mantle in - DON'T DO IT! Due to the 'perceived' value, you have to send it in under a more pricey service ($25-$50). The card is an obvious fake. You don't even have a 5% chance of it being real. You have a ZERO percent chance of it being real. Take the money you were going to spend to get it graded and buy a book on how to spot fake cards. I got a couple good ones at home, but the name escapes me at the moment. I can give you the titles later if interested.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Great post above me! As far as sending that Mantle in - DON'T DO IT! Due to the 'perceived' value, you have to send it in under a more pricey service ($25-$50). The card is an obvious fake. You don't even have a 5% chance of it being real. You have a ZERO percent chance of it being real. Take the money you were going to spend to get it graded and buy a book on how to spot fake cards. I got a couple good ones at home, but the name escapes me at the moment. I can give you the titles later if interested.

Fellow member Bob Lemke has a decent book on detecting fake cards it is called Sportscard Counterfeit Detector.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Fellow member Bob Lemke has a decent book on detecting fake cards it is called Sportscard Counterfeit Detector.

I think that is one of the ones I have! That IS a great book! It helped me greatly on those pesky 1986 Fleer Basketball cards that were always giving me trouble.

[Leon]

surely not.. .

Originally Posted by 4815162342

http://m.ebay.com/itm/1951-BOWMAN-MI...198?nav=SEARCH

Come on jackson84, tell us, are you the seller?

[jackson84]

Im not the seller. I appreciate everyones feedback. Im still waiting on the card in the mail and when i receive it i will have a better feel and look at it. I will still send it in to be graded and let everyone know if they are right or wrong.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by jackson84

Im not the seller. I appreciate everyones feedback. Im still waiting on the card in the mail and when i receive it i will have a better feel and look at it. I will still send it in to be graded and let everyone know if they are right or wrong.

Why are you going against everyone's advice?

[PolarBear]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qKcJF4fOPs

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by jackson84

Im not the seller. I appreciate everyones feedback. Im still waiting on the card in the mail and when i receive it i will have a better feel and look at it. I will still send it in to be graded and let everyone know if they are right or wrong.

Well....like PT Barnum said.....

[Leon]

To be perfectly clear there is 0.00% chance it is real. But if you put REPRINT on the submission a TPG might take your money and label it a reprint for you.

[jackson84]

I had already made the purchase before i posted here. Not that i want to go against advice but i had already paid for it so figured id check it out and hope for the best

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by jackson84

Im not the seller. I appreciate everyones feedback. Im still waiting on the card in the mail and when i receive it i will have a better feel and look at it. I will still send it in to be graded and let everyone know if they are right or wrong.

If you want it to pass I would suggest Global Authority/GAI or whatever it is called now. None of the big 3 will grade that. You can buy 51 Bowman Mantles and several others off etsy for $3.95 each just like the one pictured in post #1.

[FourStrikes]

.

[asphaltman]

Originally Posted by jackson84

I had already made the purchase before i posted here. Not that i want to go against advice but i had already paid for it so figured id check it out and hope for the best

The point is you can just send it back to the seller and just be out your return shipping costs. Makes zero cents to throw another $75 into this card to get it graded, return shpping to you, etc.

There is no "best" to hope for with that card.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by asphaltman

The point is you can just send it back to the seller and just be out your return shipping costs. Makes zero cents to throw another $75 into this card to get it graded, return shpping to you, etc.

There is no "best" to hope for with that card.

As the seller does not accept returns and clearly stated they are selling it as a reprint it might be hard to win that dispute.

These scammers know how to get around that when you do it all the time.

He's taking a 50 cent reprint, destroying it and making 47 bucks. Sounds like a hell of a racket. If you could make 94 times your investment or more on each card, you would have to know the in's and out's of Ebay. Oh...and be soulless.

[1880nonsports]

for sure even it would say "neigh". Despite the seller's verbiage that no returns are accepted - file a claim - send it back with tracking when prompted - nearly 100% you will get a refund. Seen it happen many times.

Your card is not a real '51 Mantle (place PERIOD here)

[Peter_Spaeth]

The OP doesn't deserve a refund. He paid 47 dollars for a card called a reprint and is wondering if it might be real? PT Barnum lives.

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by JustinD

As the seller does not accept returns and clearly stated they are selling it as a reprint it might be hard to win that dispute.

Easy return. Seller listed it as a 1951 reprint. It was not from 1951, hence "not as described".

[1880nonsports]

despite my liberal tendencies - your statement rings pretty true......... On some levels - each is culpable.......

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by asphaltman

The point is you can just send it back to the seller and just be out your return shipping costs. Makes zero cents to throw another $75 into this card to get it graded, return shpping to you, etc.

There is no "best" to hope for with that card.

Agreed. You could declare the value of this card to be what you paid for it and spend $15-20 getting it graded. But by the time you get it back you won't be able to return it, so you'll be out 70 bucks. Not the most expensive lesson but definitely a waste of money.

Why you refuse to listen to many vintage card experts, including the owner of this forum is beyond me. You asked for advice, got it, and have chosen to ignore it. If nothing else this helps explain why all of these types of reprints continue to sell on ebay.

[begsu1013]

put the shovel away.

instead of digging yourself out and only finding yourself deeper, here's a cheaper method. buy a $5 black light on ebay. when the card glows under the light you know instantly that you've wasted $47, but saved $58 in grading fees, shipping and it's hard not to smirk when saying this next word.....insurance!

but if the tree is healthy and in full bloom in the back yard, fedex it custom critical w/ $50K declared value and be sure to go w/ the walk thru service level.

[bobbyw8469]

Why you refuse to listen to many vintage card experts, including the owner of this forum is beyond me. You asked for advice, got it, and have chosen to ignore it. If nothing else this helps explain why all of these types of reprints continue to sell on ebay.

Touche! Between the reprints, "battlefields", and various other traps on Ebay, it's like walking though a field with land mines. I'm with you - no wonder they continue to thrive on Ebay. The buyers make it easy for them to stay the course.

[Bored5000]

I don't understand the original poster. Even a folded up beater of a '51 Bowman Mantle is a $1,000+ card. An iconic card like a '51 Mantle is not going to fly under the radar for $47 at auction.

[ullmandds]

you can lead a horse to water...but u can't make him drink!

[begsu1013]

stevie wonder could see she's a fake!

[CW]

I think one of the main reasons we see so many folks come on here and play out the same scenario (ie. they show an obvious reprint asking if it's real, then when all the experts chime in and give them the bad news, the go into denial and hold onto that last grasp of hope that the card is real) is because of the dream of making the big score -- buying a card on the cheap and hoping they found the bargain of their lifetime.

They can't face the fact that the card is fake because then they'd have to give up the dream.

Sure, some of these "collectors" do want to own a Babe Ruth card or a Mantle, but since those cards are so expensive their only hope is to find that needle in the haystack. It's not so much about collecting cards, but more about the chase and making "the find". Heck, maybe they even get in the local newspaper. That's the appeal, and that's why we see so many reprints sell for $50-$200+.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by CW

I think one of the main reasons we see so many folks come on here and play out the same scenario (ie. they show an obvious reprint asking if it's real, then when all the experts chime in and give them the bad news, the go into denial and hold onto that last grasp of hope that the card is real) is because of the dream of making the big score -- buying a card on the cheap and hoping they found the bargain of their lifetime.

They can't face the fact that the card is fake because then they'd have to give up the dream.

Sure, some of these "collectors" do want to own a Babe Ruth card or a Mantle, but since those cards are so expensive their only hope is to find that needle in the haystack. It's not so much about collecting cards, but more about the chase and making "the find". Heck, maybe they even get in the local newspaper. That's the appeal, and that's why we see so many reprints sell for $50-$200+.

Or its the scum selling them and they are hoping to find some suckers on a baseball card forum to buy their garbage.

[asphaltman]

Wow.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1951-Bowman-...-/291526719783

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by CW

I think one of the main reasons we see so many folks come on here and play out the same scenario (ie. they show an obvious reprint asking if it's real, then when all the experts chime in and give them the bad news, the go into denial and hold onto that last grasp of hope that the card is real) is because of the dream of making the big score -- buying a card on the cheap and hoping they found the bargain of their lifetime.

They can't face the fact that the card is fake because then they'd have to give up the dream.

Sure, some of these "collectors" do want to own a Babe Ruth card or a Mantle, but since those cards are so expensive their only hope is to find that needle in the haystack. It's not so much about collecting cards, but more about the chase and making "the find". Heck, maybe they even get in the local newspaper. That's the appeal, and that's why we see so many reprints sell for $50-$200+.

right but it shouldn't be from ebay..the sellers there know what they are doing...maybe you get what you think is an obvious fake in the world at an consignment auction house and its in one of the junk wax boxes of cards..and a 51 mantle is in there...maybe I can see that dream scenario which is probably still fake..but zero chance on ebay.....someone that takes the time to scan a card or have someone do it and list one ebay has the time to get a real card graded

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by asphaltman

Wow.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1951-Bowman-...-/291526719783

Holy shit ... How can some people be so optimistic ...er i mean stupid! That's sellers name sounds familiar ?

[MW1]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Holy shit ... How can some people be so optimistic ...er i mean stupid! That's sellers name sounds familiar ?

This one looks authentic.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by CW

I think one of the main reasons we see so many folks come on here and play out the same scenario (ie. they show an obvious reprint asking if it's real, then when all the experts chime in and give them the bad news, the go into denial and hold onto that last grasp of hope that the card is real) is because of the dream of making the big score -- buying a card on the cheap and hoping they found the bargain of their lifetime.

They can't face the fact that the card is fake because then they'd have to give up the dream.

Sure, some of these "collectors" do want to own a Babe Ruth card or a Mantle, but since those cards are so expensive their only hope is to find that needle in the haystack. It's not so much about collecting cards, but more about the chase and making "the find". Heck, maybe they even get in the local newspaper. That's the appeal, and that's why we see so many reprints sell for $50-$200+.

I guess I can understand the mindset, but these speculators would be much better served to take that $50, and place a bet on a specific number on a roulette wheel at their local Indian casino. Perhaps the Mick's Jersey number (7). 36-1 will pay 1800, if those are the correct odds. They can then use that money to buy the card. This would actually be my advice to the OP. Return the card for a refund, and "invest" that money at a casino. Much better chance of a big score.

I don't think anyone is going to end up with a 1 in 40 chance of finding a real 51 Mantle for 50 bucks on ebay.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I guess I can understand the mindset, but these speculators would be much better served to take that $50, and place a bet on a specific number on a roulette wheel at their local Indian casino. Perhaps the Mick's Jersey number (7). 36-1 will pay 1800, if those are the correct odds. They can then use that money to buy the card. This would actually be my advice to the OP. Return the card for a refund, and "invest" that money at a casino. Much better chance of a big score.

I don't think anyone is going to end up with a 1 in 40 chance of finding a real 51 Mantle for 50 bucks on ebay.

right but they want to try to make even a dollar in cards ...heck we can all work at mcdonalds with our extra time and make more than most of us do with all the time we look at listings and buy and sell cards....it not about net money....

[bobbyw8469]

36-1 will pay 1800, if those are the correct odds.

Correct odds are 35-1. And you have to make sure your wager doesn't exceed the maximum table payout. If it does, they will only pay you the max, so it is a wasted excess bet.