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#1
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429/524 Off of the monster 81% 49/76 HOF's 64% 18/20 Overlooked by Cooperstown 90% 22/39 Unique Backs 56% 80/86 Minors 93% 25/48 Southern Leaguers 52% 6/10 Billy Sullivan back run 60% 237PSA / 94 SGC / 98 RAW Excel spreadsheets only $5 T3, T201, T202, T204, T205, T206, T207, 1914 CJ, 1915 CJ, Topps 1952-1979, and more!!!! Checklists sold (20) T205 8/208 3.8% |
#2
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Is this really that surprising? Every day there is a new stupid post about "omg is this a new dot!?" "Is this a ghost? Over print, print line, scratch, poop" etc etc etc. It never ends.
Hate the set because it seems like everyone tries to find a dumb mark or a dot of ink that didn't fully dry and try to sell it as a variation. Most annoying card set in existence. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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HOFAutoRookies.com |
#3
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Brent maybe not just wanna state the obvious for everyone.
Hate the set you're breaking my heart lol. But at the same time good for you idk how you can deny loving the monster.
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429/524 Off of the monster 81% 49/76 HOF's 64% 18/20 Overlooked by Cooperstown 90% 22/39 Unique Backs 56% 80/86 Minors 93% 25/48 Southern Leaguers 52% 6/10 Billy Sullivan back run 60% 237PSA / 94 SGC / 98 RAW Excel spreadsheets only $5 T3, T201, T202, T204, T205, T206, T207, 1914 CJ, 1915 CJ, Topps 1952-1979, and more!!!! Checklists sold (20) T205 8/208 3.8% |
#4
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LOL sorry. I do like it...signed ![]() Like I said before, it's very annoying how there are at least 5 posts a day about a new variation that just isn't. It's annoying. I don't go on here much anymore (other than the auto BST) mainly because of all the T206 stuff "variation" crap. I love learning about the printing layouts etc, but it's too much. Maybe someone should start a new strictly T206 forum. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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HOFAutoRookies.com Last edited by HOF Auto Rookies; 09-19-2015 at 07:25 PM. |
#5
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![]() Quote:
__________________
429/524 Off of the monster 81% 49/76 HOF's 64% 18/20 Overlooked by Cooperstown 90% 22/39 Unique Backs 56% 80/86 Minors 93% 25/48 Southern Leaguers 52% 6/10 Billy Sullivan back run 60% 237PSA / 94 SGC / 98 RAW Excel spreadsheets only $5 T3, T201, T202, T204, T205, T206, T207, 1914 CJ, 1915 CJ, Topps 1952-1979, and more!!!! Checklists sold (20) T205 8/208 3.8% |
#6
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I'd love to take a peak! Don't go after them other than signed hof ones but it's a great looking set! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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HOFAutoRookies.com |
#7
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I don't hate the set by any means, and only own a few commons, but it does seem strange to me that variations that would be consider print defects or mis cuts in any other set go for massive premiums.
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Successful transactions with peter spaeth, don's cards, vwtdi, wolf441, 111gecko, Clydewally, Jim, SPMIDD, MattyC, jmb, botn, E107collector, begsu1013, and a few others. |
#8
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Ya know there's a whole sub forum for stuff that's been written on. Thank goodness, because there's like 5 posts a day about "is this writing real"
Who collects stuff with pen marks anyway? Just kidding, sort of........... ![]() Steve B |
#9
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checked out the listing with ONE EYE (the right one) CLOSED, and...while my peripheral vision may be limited when taking such a quick glance, I almost swear I SAW "OakF8"...
not trying to "flame" T-206 print variation / oddities collectors, but...I'm guessing there's a bazillion ways to "see" things that may (or may not) actually be there... DS |
#10
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The seller obviously is marketing to Helen Keller.
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429/524 Off of the monster 81% 49/76 HOF's 64% 18/20 Overlooked by Cooperstown 90% 22/39 Unique Backs 56% 80/86 Minors 93% 25/48 Southern Leaguers 52% 6/10 Billy Sullivan back run 60% 237PSA / 94 SGC / 98 RAW Excel spreadsheets only $5 T3, T201, T202, T204, T205, T206, T207, 1914 CJ, 1915 CJ, Topps 1952-1979, and more!!!! Checklists sold (20) T205 8/208 3.8% Last edited by Joshchisox08; 09-20-2015 at 05:27 AM. |
#11
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PT barnum said it best.
Last edited by bobbyw8469; 09-20-2015 at 06:00 AM. |
#12
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Recurring print defects have achieved hobby stardom and big premiums in post war sets as well. The 58 Herrer, the 57 Bakep, and the 52 Campos black star come to mind
Hobby recognition through SCD, Beckett or The Registry, rather than self promotion is usually required. Most folks are totally uninterested in variations or recurring print defects, but some of us go a little cry over them ![]() |
#13
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Speaking for myself ( and I think many other people who get involved in these discussions) most of us don't consider print defects a variation. We take an interest in what you listed (minus "the poop") possibly helping us figure out a sheet layout or other areas related to the printing process. I understand the people who have no interest at all in this, what I don't understand is all the negative comments about a group of people discussing this on a forum dedicated to vintage card collecting. |
#14
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I do, however, love the idea of a T206 board. Separating them out in the BST is the best change this board has had in a while....
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Items for sale or trade here UPDATED 3-16-18 Last edited by conor912; 09-20-2015 at 10:53 AM. |
#15
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I think I may start up a board and have some guys on here be mod's on it. The Monster has soooo many followers I think it could be beneficial for the hobby. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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HOFAutoRookies.com |
#16
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__________________
$co++ Forre$+ |
#17
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Again this seems sidetracked. The point was that this is NOT an error at all. And someone being an @hole pretending it's an error. You can most definitely see the E.
__________________
429/524 Off of the monster 81% 49/76 HOF's 64% 18/20 Overlooked by Cooperstown 90% 22/39 Unique Backs 56% 80/86 Minors 93% 25/48 Southern Leaguers 52% 6/10 Billy Sullivan back run 60% 237PSA / 94 SGC / 98 RAW Excel spreadsheets only $5 T3, T201, T202, T204, T205, T206, T207, 1914 CJ, 1915 CJ, Topps 1952-1979, and more!!!! Checklists sold (20) T205 8/208 3.8% |
#18
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There are enough of these to say that oakfs is a legit caption issue. I have seen a dozen of them.
Whether or not you like that or even want to collect it or respect it I think, is an entirely different issue. |
#19
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I agree with you it's not an error or variation but the nodgrass, Murr'y, Shappe, or Dopner aren't either but they bring huge premiums because they were listed as such in pricing catalogs years ago and are still listed in some of them today. |
#20
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Leon Luckey www.luckeycards.com |
#21
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cataloged versions bring not the sellers who hype similar examples that aren't listed. It has been proven that the Shappe, nodgrass, Murr'y ect.... are nothing more than printing defects. There are a large number of un-cataloged versions of these throughout the set. They need to either remove the ones they have listed (which is what I think they should do) or start listing all of them in the catalogs. Here's a Davis that's missing a leg on the R in AMER, and another one that sold on ebay recently, I have seen at least a dozen of these. http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-11-T206...p2047675.l2557 |
#22
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You've created this beast yourselves and I hope you're all happy now.
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#23
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These cards were listed in the catalogs long before " the crazy T206 crowd that analyzes everything" grew. The analysis of cards like this is what has proven they are nothing more than a print defect. I have many cards that I've purchased for research purposes that I know I'm probably going to lose money on when I sell them and I knew that when I bought them. I started collecting T206 cards on a small scale 13 years ago, there were small shows in our area and while there may have been a handful of pre war cards at some of them I never noticed. Then I went to a national and I was in awe of how many cards there were that were close to or over 100 years old. One of the sellers had boxes full of T206 cards (I think they were $8-$12) so I purchased one and I couldn't get over how cool it was to own a card that old for close to the price of a pack of new cards. The same thing drives me in the research I do, I think it's cool to try and figure out how they were printed over 100 years ago and value has absolutely nothing to do with it. I continued collecting them moderately for ten years and one day Tim Cathey directed me here. Because of the amount of comments similar to yours I wouldn't do the same. |
#24
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I do not collect T 206, but for example the Topps 58 Herrer, missing or with only a partial e commands a large premium. It is a simple,scarce but recurring print defect that long ago received hobby recognition.
In the years before he retired Bob Lemke was narrowing his definition of a variation that would be listed in the SCD Standard Catalog. He seemed to require that the difference in the card be a result of an intentional change in the card by the manufacturer. But in some cases it is hard to tell if a recurring print defect was corrected, or simply occurred unintentionally in the printing process for some period of time. And with ebay and internet scans, there has been an explosion in the discovery of "variant" cards...cards that differ from their typical counterpart in some way, intended or not Since Bob retired it is harder and a bit haphazard getting any new "variation" listed in SCD. Not sure about Beckett. I used to think PSA took it's cue from listings in SCD or Beckett, but not long back they added a 61 Ron Fairly with an errant green smudge in the baseball on the back of the card to their master set list. Not sure if they got that from Beckett. It did not come from SCD. That defect exists on many 61 cards. It would appear that persistence in pursuing the recognition of a variation can pay off, and as Leon mentioned, there is an economic payoff if you succeed. I personally collect any variation recognized by SCD, Beckett or PSA for my sets. I also collect recurring print defects, whether intentionally corrected or not, because I find such "variant" cards interesting. But I just collect them. I do not sell them to others or try to "sell" them to the catalogs or PSA. To each their own Last edited by ALR-bishop; 09-21-2015 at 11:03 AM. |
#25
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Well Pat I didn't mean to insult you. All I meant was the price of this card is insane because people drive it up looking for any excuse to call something new or a scrap or a variation, when all you've got is a slightly dinged common. Anyway, my true point was that despite you saying that this set's printing is interesting to study, the fact is these cards and their popularity are mostly driven by financial interest over methodical ones. People just want to make a quick buck and over zealous collectors have turned this niche market into a cash grab.
Last edited by packs; 09-21-2015 at 12:54 PM. |
#26
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How is responding directly to another member's post "sidetracked"? This isn't an encyclopedia - it's a discussion forum.
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$co++ Forre$+ |
#27
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Because the post was to discuss forgery or falsely labeling a card on eBay, not how people dislike all the variations of T206 and how those who like them/collect them are crazy ..............
__________________
429/524 Off of the monster 81% 49/76 HOF's 64% 18/20 Overlooked by Cooperstown 90% 22/39 Unique Backs 56% 80/86 Minors 93% 25/48 Southern Leaguers 52% 6/10 Billy Sullivan back run 60% 237PSA / 94 SGC / 98 RAW Excel spreadsheets only $5 T3, T201, T202, T204, T205, T206, T207, 1914 CJ, 1915 CJ, Topps 1952-1979, and more!!!! Checklists sold (20) T205 8/208 3.8% |
#28
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Josh, if you would - please monitor all of my posts and make sure I am discussing things correctly on the internet. I would hate to be the one guy who is fvcking everything up.
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$co++ Forre$+ |
#29
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I was simply stating the fact and don't remember singling you out at all. Sorry for any inconvenience I may have caused you.
__________________
429/524 Off of the monster 81% 49/76 HOF's 64% 18/20 Overlooked by Cooperstown 90% 22/39 Unique Backs 56% 80/86 Minors 93% 25/48 Southern Leaguers 52% 6/10 Billy Sullivan back run 60% 237PSA / 94 SGC / 98 RAW Excel spreadsheets only $5 T3, T201, T202, T204, T205, T206, T207, 1914 CJ, 1915 CJ, Topps 1952-1979, and more!!!! Checklists sold (20) T205 8/208 3.8% |
#30
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No offense, but if you are going to be talking smack, shouldn't your real name be out there for all to see?? Leon??
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#31
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It's in his signature at the bottom.
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#32
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I responded to "smack". But thanks Bobby - it's good to know we have at least two junior moderator wannabes auditioning in this thread.
I will get my name in my byline as soon as I get home sir
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$co++ Forre$+ |
#33
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Thanks - couldn't see it from my Tapatalk version.
Scott <=== tries to obey the law
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$co++ Forre$+ Last edited by Runscott; 09-22-2015 at 11:18 AM. |
#34
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The purpose of the name rules are for people to stand behind what they say and let members know who is saying things about them. It is not a "technical" rule. Scott (hey Scott) has his website linked and it is easy to click on to find out his identity. Thanks
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Leon Luckey www.luckeycards.com |
#35
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Since we're sort of back on track, here's my take on varieties etc. It's based on how other hobbies approach similar topics and might only work for me.
I prefer the term variety - It's used in another hobby of mine and there refers to a difference on the plate intentional or not. Some are catalog listed, some aren't. Some are expensive, some aren't. The catalogs list most of the major ones, and occasionally some minor ones. They even list some that were added in the 1930's based on very questionable info and the item may not exist. Until someone like me finds it. ![]() I don't specifically collect the varieties on T206. If I have a choice of a nice card or one in lesser condition but with a small variety I'll probably go with the nicer one. If everything is equal I might take the variety. I enjoy the puzzle of figuring out what they are and what if anything they can tell us about the production process. But with -by my sort of informed estimate - at least 24 identifiable but nearly identical varieties for most poses in the set (And at least 8 for ALL of them) And with this sort of caption flaw being fairly common, attempting to collect them would be almost entirely insane. Speaking of caption flaws in general, the card posted is probably either paper loss or something stuck to the front, but there is probably a version very similar out there. Do I think that ANY of the varieties should carry a premium? A qualified NO. I do believe there will be some that should, but there needs to be a lot more information to be sure, and none of us is there as far as I know. I don't think we're even there as a group, and it's a pretty small group. I also don't believe that anyone should feel they have to collect them to have the "complete" set. In the other hobbies that have similar things most collectors simply ignore the varieties. And that makes me very happy some days. The stray marks on this indicate a poorly erased image of a different stamp on the plate. Something called a foreign entry. Catalog listed, at something over $2k and only about 50-55 were sold with the specimen overprint (And only 91 of the one without the overprint so both are more rare than the upside down airplane stamp )- the normal one is usually around $25 with a catalog value around $50. I was really really happy to find this being sold as the normal one ![]() Steve B |
#36
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![]() Quote:
Feeling a little confused here........
__________________
429/524 Off of the monster 81% 49/76 HOF's 64% 18/20 Overlooked by Cooperstown 90% 22/39 Unique Backs 56% 80/86 Minors 93% 25/48 Southern Leaguers 52% 6/10 Billy Sullivan back run 60% 237PSA / 94 SGC / 98 RAW Excel spreadsheets only $5 T3, T201, T202, T204, T205, T206, T207, 1914 CJ, 1915 CJ, Topps 1952-1979, and more!!!! Checklists sold (20) T205 8/208 3.8% |
#37
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I'll start by thanking Steve for his usual well-thought-out, based-on-immense-knowledge, post. Seriously, Steve - I always enjoy your thoughts on this sort of thing, as it comes from a printing background.
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$co++ Forre$+ |
#38
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+ 1 on Steve
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#39
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Thanks guys .
![]() The background is more than just printing, I am or have been into a number of hobbies at different levels for longer than I like to think about. Some mainstream, some not. There's also a decade or so doing machinery repairs with a place that didn't specialize. So I worked on stuff like a 1930's extrusion press and a machine that ground telescope lenses. Talk about huge differences! Coins, Stamps, cards of course, Old bottles, telephone insulators, the usual rocks and shells most kids collect. Old bicycles and the stuff related to them. Cars -briefly, it's too darn hard to fix them while needing to drive them. Old computers and video games, general ephemera............Yeah, pretty much collect whatever catches my eye. It's fascinating how most people in different hobbies look at things. Oddly the card hobby is sort of in the middle when it comes to this sort of stuff. Stamps can get totally insane, coins has headed more that way. The old bike guys won't buy even a very rare bike unless they can ride it and some are super fussy about the size. I don't think I ever saw anything about differences in bottles at all. But it has been a long time for those. once every few years I'll run across one that just looks nice to me and is cheap but I haven't really followed it. Of course the stamp and coin folks have well over a hundred years headstart on us. Steve B |
#40
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[QUOTE=Pat R;1454583]That's the problem Leon, I blame the catalogs for the ridiculous prices that the
cataloged versions bring not the sellers who hype similar examples that aren't listed The Pfeffer in the REA auction is a perfect example of this. Recently listed as a new variation in Beckett and a $100 card sells for $2650.00 with the BP. http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/...x?itemid=37731 Last edited by Pat R; 10-18-2015 at 04:35 PM. |
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