Best offer...pfft!

[ksabet]

I wish I could persuade Ebay to change the "best offer" button to say "realistic offer". I don't know if it would make a difference but it may just incline a few people to think intelligently when making an offer.

Card Value: $450
Price: $499 OBO
Offer: $32

This does go both ways.

Card Value: $1000
Price: $3999
Offer: $1250
Counter by seller: $3950

[Lgarza99]

To funny.

I've made reasonable offers with some success. To a to be unnamed eBay seller I've made again, a reasonable offer only to be countered with a $5 dollar reduction on a $800+ card. Why even list it as buy it now, or best offer then? Just list it for what you want when you only have $5 of room.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

I have had good and bad luck with the best offer but I understand that some people want to stick by a price.

[pawpawdiv9]

FYI- you can select where to auto decline if under a specific price option

[Kenny Cole]

A few months back there was a D304 I wanted with a buy it now price of $360 and a best offer option. I offered $325 and was completely ignored, which kind of pissed me off. The offer expired but I kept the card on my watch list. A couple of months later the seller drops the bin to $322.50 and I buy the card for less than I'd offered.

If you are going to list a card with a best offer option doesn't it make sense to actually watch and respond to offers? I guess I don't really get the whole best offer option very well.

[ksabet]

Originally Posted by pawpawdiv9

FYI- you can select where to auto decline if under a specific price option

Yeah I have used that before, but I had a guy tell me he used up his three offers coming in around $5 short of my floor. I guess I prefer to have more control but in the end I may be a glutton for punishment as I get frustrated as well.

[bobbyw8469]

I myself have seen it both ways as well. In a nutshell, there are unrealistic buyers as well as unrealistic sellers. It's a shame that they can't only deal with each other and leave all us normal people alone!

[ullmandds]

it's a crapshoot...some people are reasonable...some are not!

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by ksabet

Yeah I have used that before, but I had a guy tell me he used up his three offers coming in around $5 short of my floor. I guess I prefer to have more control but in the end I may be a glutton for punishment as I get frustrated as well.

Seller should know the market value of what he is selling, or he should run straight auctions. And the buyer should know what things are worth, or should not be buying. Sometimes a seller is wrong, realizes it after an item gathers dust, and should then lower his price or take them to a show where overhead is lower.

You obviously know your product's value, and want to offer a range, which makes complete sense. But I've personally found 'best offer' to be a waste of time, precisely because of what you just described. After the customer uses up his 3 offers trying to find your bottom-line, he then comes back and asks you for it

[bn2cardz]

I was just saying to my wife within the last couple of months that it is "BEST OFFER", not "the Lowest you think you can buy this card for offer".

I had a card that I listed for $50 and based that off the recent auctions on ebay and going with the lower sales, ebay had defaulted the offer option on and I missed it. I got an offer from a person for $20. I declined and left the best offer on as I was going to be on later listing more and figured I could fix that listing and a few others at that point. Later on the same person offered $30. I quickly declined. Then they offered $40. SERIOUSLY? Obviously $20 wasn't your best was it? There are times where I may have accepted that, but he had upset me so much by his original low ball offer I declined. I got to ebay and fixed the offer option at that point. Within an hour of his last offer someone bought it at my full asking price.

[Section103]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

I was just saying to my wife within the last couple of months that it is "BEST OFFER", not "the Lowest you think you can buy this card for offer".

I had a card that I listed for $50 and based that off the recent auctions on ebay and going with the lower sales, ebay had defaulted the offer option on and I missed it. I got an offer from a person for $20. I declined and left the best offer on as I was going to be on later listing more and figured I could fix that listing and a few others at that point. Later on the same person offered $30. I quickly declined. Then they offered $40. SERIOUSLY? Obviously $20 wasn't your best was it? There are times where I may have accepted that, but he had upset me so much by his original low ball offer I declined. I got to ebay and fixed the offer option at that point. Within an hour of his last offer someone bought it at my full asking price.

By definition, isn't it illogical for ebay to offer buyers 3 best offers then? "Best Offer" is clearly a misnomer.

[t206hof]

I for one am sick and tired of these buy it now prices of 3 and 4 times what a card is worth. I know many will disagree with me but that is fine it's what makes the world go around. These sellers are for a lack of better words on the fence and there are too many like this on ebay. The fence will collapse sooner or later. I will go ahead and further say I believe everything should be started for either .99 or 9.99 and let fly. I am aware that this will bring shilling more to the front but I for one only put in what I am comfortable paying. Where the problem comes in is when people overpay due to getting caught up in the frenzy and overpay. I hope I do not offend anyone because that is not my intention. Dennis.

[glchen]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

I was just saying to my wife within the last couple of months that it is "BEST OFFER", not "the Lowest you think you can buy this card for offer".

I had a card that I listed for $50 and based that off the recent auctions on ebay and going with the lower sales, ebay had defaulted the offer option on and I missed it. I got an offer from a person for $20. I declined and left the best offer on as I was going to be on later listing more and figured I could fix that listing and a few others at that point. Later on the same person offered $30. I quickly declined. Then they offered $40. SERIOUSLY? Obviously $20 wasn't your best was it? There are times where I may have accepted that, but he had upset me so much by his original low ball offer I declined. I got to ebay and fixed the offer option at that point. Within an hour of his last offer someone bought it at my full asking price.

I've always interpreted the Best Offer process on ebay as a negotiation since you can counter-offer. Therefore, if the seller has a card for $100 w/ BO, and I think the highest price that I am willing to go is $75, then I will give an offer of $50. I completely expect the seller to counter-offer, and my hope is that we can reach a price around $75. If I make the offer $75 as my first offer, and the seller counters w/a $90, then I'm stuck. I've already given my best price, but that $90 might not have been the lowest the seller was willing to go.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by t206hof

I will go ahead and further say I believe everything should be started for either .99 or 9.99 and let fly. I am aware that this will bring shilling more to the front but I for one only put in what I am comfortable paying.

With such a rule, you will no longer have any legitimate vintage card sellers on ebay. I know this is lost on many buyers, but unless sellers make a profit, they move to another venue or go broke.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Runscott

With such a rule, you will no longer have any legitimate vintage card sellers on ebay. I know this is lost on many buyers, but unless sellers make a profit, they move to another venue or go broke.

100% agree. If I buy a card for $100 (and VCP average is $140), put it on Ebay for .99 cents and after a whopping 10 day auction, see the $100 card sell for $52.50, then I won't be in business for long. Alot of the buyers aren't supporting the true 99 cent auctions. They seem to support Probstein and PWCC but hardly anyone else. I am afraid that is what is happening on Ebay right now. That is why only Probstein and PWCC survive, and everyone else is running BIN's. Not too many people can afford to lose alot of money per pop. I can for a little while, because I write off all my purchases on my taxes. Still, noone wants to see a $200 item at $40 with 12 hours to go.

[t206hof]

Scott, that is fine let them move on. In life sometimes you have to settle, houses, cars, jobs, even women. They should come to realize you cannot always get top prices for their cards simply because They own them. Just like life they will sooner or later learn they need to settle also.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by Section103

By definition, isn't it illogical for ebay to offer buyers 3 best offers then? "Best Offer" is clearly a misnomer.

I think that this is the reason has a limit actually. The only reason I see why they allow 3 still is for negotiating as GLCHEN mentions...

Originally Posted by glchen

I've always interpreted the Best Offer process on ebay as a negotiation since you can counter-offer. Therefore, if the seller has a card for $100 w/ BO, and I think the highest price that I am willing to go is $75, then I will give an offer of $50. I completely expect the seller to counter-offer, and my hope is that we can reach a price around $75. If I make the offer $75 as my first offer, and the seller counters w/a $90, then I'm stuck. I've already given my best price, but that $90 might not have been the lowest the seller was willing to go.

As far as negotiating you don't have to start at $20 to get to $40 on a $50 item. That is just a low ball offer. If you are going to offer less than you are willing to pay I will just deny it I no longer do the negotiating without a conversation. If you want to tell me why you are only willing to pay $20 put it in the comment section to the seller. Okay ebay allows 3 offers... guess what they also allow you to communicate with the seller. These people should try it sometime they will get farther in negotiating if they don't just throw out a stupid low ball offer.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by t206hof

Scott, that is fine let them move on. In life sometimes you have to settle, houses, cars, jobs, even women. They should come to realize you cannot always get top prices for their cards simply because They own them. Just like life they will sooner or later learn they need to settle also.

Most of the ones you are looking for (.99 or 9.99 starting auctions) have either moved on, or converted to BIN. I think you are missing that most us who sell, used to do so exactly the way you are asking. Again, fun is fun, but in the end we cannot take a loss and keep doing this.

Asking for people to shill in order to survive under your desired selling scenario, is not a good idea.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

100% agree. If I buy a card for $100 (and VCP average is $140), put it on Ebay for .99 cents and after a whopping 10 day auction, see the $100 card sell for $52.50, then I won't be in business for long. Alot of the buyers aren't supporting the true 99 cent auctions. They seem to support Probstein and PWCC but hardly anyone else. I am afraid that is what is happening on Ebay right now. That is why only Probstein and PWCC survive, and everyone else is running BIN's. Not too many people can afford to lose alot of money per pop. I can for a little while, because I write off all my purchases on my taxes. Still, noone wants to see a $200 item at $40 with 12 hours to go.

Also, I haven't seen where anyone has discussed Probstein and PWWCC's consignment fees. Probstein offers consignment fees that are so low that if I were do do so, I would take a loss on every single card. He is getting a great deal from ebay, that the smaller sellers cannot get (I did the math - I'm right about this one).

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by t206hof

Scott, that is fine let them move on. In life sometimes you have to settle, houses, cars, jobs, even women. They should come to realize you cannot always get top prices for their cards simply because They own them. Just like life they will sooner or later learn they need to settle also.

Originally Posted by Runscott

Most of the ones you are looking for (.99 or 9.99 starting auctions) have either moved on, or converted to BIN. I think you are missing that most us who sell, used to do so exactly the way you are asking. Again, fun is fun, but in the end we cannot take a loss and keep doing this.

Asking for people to shill in order to survive under your desired selling scenario, is not a good idea.

I think he is just wants to be able to get deals that he feels that he is missing out on by people selling at straight prices.

I don't like seeing a bunch of cards priced higher than I agree with, but I don't have a problem with it anymore than seeing overpriced cards at card shops and shows.

Not everyone on ebay is there to get a quick sale anymore. There are some people that do it to show off what they have. Some people do it to supplement their webstore. Others are there to sell, but don't need the money quickly so are willing to wait for the right buyer at the right prices. The sellers that just need to sell quickly at any price do exist, but you shouldn't assume every seller on ebay is one of those sellers. Not everyone is sitting there with a "woe is me, why aren't my cards selling quicker?" attitude.

[ksabet]

It's important to remember Ebay's role in this. They have continually shifted there strategy to support a market place as opposed to an auction site. I think they falsely view Amazon as their competition where they really can't compete and should stick to auctions.

If I am not mistaken don't they take a larger cut if an item sells at BIN as opposed to auction?

[edjs]

Slightly off-topic, but why do sellers on e-bay raise the price on items that didn't sell? I have been following one item (auction only with an assigned minimum bid) for about 6 weeks or so, it was doing fine, $79, didn't sell, re-listed for $65, didn't sell, re-listed for $59, didn't sell, now I am thinking "perfect, just what I was wanting to pay for it, about $45-50!" Seller re-listed today, $79! Ugh. I don't know the fair market price (very obscure item, nothing to compare to), I only know what my budget is, and what I am willing to spend on something I like but don't really need. I just don't understand why after lowering the price twice and not selling, then raising the price back up. Can anyone explain this? I understand when sellers re-list at the same price, but why raise a price on something that didn't sell?

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by edjs

Slightly off-topic, but why do sellers on e-bay raise the price on items that didn't sell? I have been following one item (auction only with an assigned minimum bid) for about 6 weeks or so, it was doing fine, $79, didn't sell, re-listed for $65, didn't sell, re-listed for $59, didn't sell, now I am thinking "perfect, just what I was wanting to pay for it, about $45-50!" Seller re-listed today, $79! Ugh. I don't know the fair market price (very obscure item, nothing to compare to), I only know what my budget is, and what I am willing to spend on something I like but don't really need. I just don't understand why after lowering the price twice and not selling, then raising the price back up. Can anyone explain this? I understand when sellers re-list at the same price, but why raise a price on something that didn't sell?

$59 might have been the lowest sale point that he is willing to sell and still eek out a profit. No seller wants to break even. Apparently, his break even price is your "BUY" price.

[edjs]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

$59 might have been the lowest sale point that he is willing to sell and still eek out a profit. No seller wants to break even. Apparently, his break even price is your "BUY" price.

You missed the point. After going down to $59, his latest listing is right back at $79. It didn't sell at $59, why raise the price back up to $79?

[glchen]

Originally Posted by edjs

Slightly off-topic, but why do sellers on e-bay raise the price on items that didn't sell? I have been following one item (auction only with an assigned minimum bid) for about 6 weeks or so, it was doing fine, $79, didn't sell, re-listed for $65, didn't sell, re-listed for $59, didn't sell, now I am thinking "perfect, just what I was wanting to pay for it, about $45-50!" Seller re-listed today, $79! Ugh. I don't know the fair market price (very obscure item, nothing to compare to), I only know what my budget is, and what I am willing to spend on something I like but don't really need. I just don't understand why after lowering the price twice and not selling, then raising the price back up. Can anyone explain this? I understand when sellers re-list at the same price, but why raise a price on something that didn't sell?

There are a bunch of different reasons why a seller might raise prices on items that didn't sell. I wouldn't know the specifics for this case, but here are a few possible answers:

(1) Even though this card didn't sell, the seller believes the price for this card is going up. For example, the seller lists this card for sale for $50. It doesn't sell. However, at the same time, this same card in the same condition sells for $60 from another seller like PWCC or Probstein123. Seeing this, the seller raises his price to $60 to match what it recently sold for.

(2) The seller is raising the price so that he can lower it again later. The card price has gone from $70 to $50, but hasn't sold. Rather than drop it to $40, the seller raises it back to $70. Since potential buyers have seen that the card is not going to drop below $50, when the seller lowers the price in the future, the buyer will just grab it at $50.

(3) The seller is pushing for an off-ebay deal. Similar to the last one, the seller has already hinted at what his lowest price is. He has raised the price back up. If you want that lower price, or even lower, contact the seller for an off-ebay transaction.

(4) The seller no longer needs the money. Sometimes, ebay sellers need cash immediately, whether it is to pay off a large purchase they made personally or for the business. They slash the prices on a lot of their ebay inventory, even selling cards for a loss or below what they would usually accept in order to raise cash. However, once they have raised enough funds, they can bring the prices back to their original price.

[edjs]

Originally Posted by glchen

There are a bunch of different reasons why a seller might raise prices on items that didn't sell. I wouldn't know the specifics for this case, but here are a few possible answers:

(1) Even though this card didn't sell, the seller believes the price for this card is going up. For example, the seller lists this card for sale for $50. It doesn't sell. However, at the same time, this same card in the same condition sells for $60 from another seller like PWCC or Probstein123. Seeing this, the seller raises his price to $60 to match what it recently sold for.

(2) The seller is raising the price so that he can lower it again later. The card price has gone from $70 to $50, but hasn't sold. Rather than drop it to $40, the seller raises it back to $70. Since potential buyers have seen that the card is not going to drop below $50, when the seller lowers the price in the future, the buyer will just grab it at $50.

(3) The seller is pushing for an off-ebay deal. Similar to the last one, the seller has already hinted at what his lowest price is. He has raised the price back up. If you want that lower price, or even lower, contact the seller for an off-ebay transaction.

(4) The seller no longer needs the money. Sometimes, ebay sellers need cash immediately, whether it is to pay off a large purchase they made personally or for the business. They slash the prices on a lot of their ebay inventory, even selling cards for a loss or below what they would usually accept in order to raise cash. However, once they have raised enough funds, they can bring the prices back to their original price.

Huh, I guess that is why I'm not in sales for a living. Thanks!

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by edjs

Huh, I guess that is why I'm not in sales for a living. Thanks!

Gary did a better job of explaining it than I did. I was at work, and couldn't go in depth. If you want to get it lower than what it is selling for on Ebay, try looking for the card on different auction sites. Try getting a larger lot of cards that has your card in it. A lot of sellers are tired of subsidizing other peoples good deals. They look long and hard trying to find undervalued gems. Are they not allowed to make a little profit off their work?? You want it for $50 - in my opinion, you should have bought it at $59. $9 is such a small amount to squabble for over a deal, especially since the seller probably has $50 in the card to begin with!

[pbspelly]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

100% agree. If I buy a card for $100 (and VCP average is $140), put it on Ebay for .99 cents and after a whopping 10 day auction, see the $100 card sell for $52.50, then I won't be in business for long. Alot of the buyers aren't supporting the true 99 cent auctions. They seem to support Probstein and PWCC but hardly anyone else. I am afraid that is what is happening on Ebay right now.

I don't quite understand this. If the VCP average is $140 and you put it on eBay for .99 cents, why would it sell for $52.50? Wouldn't other knowledgeable dealers, such as those on this forum who know the true value of the card, bid it up to at least $100 or more? Economists will tell you that the value of something is what other people are willing to pay for it. Considering the relatively wide exposure a listing gets on eBay, why isn't the eBay auction sales price the true value?

I am not saying this in order to criticize you, or say that you must have overpaid or should accept the low eBay price. I'm just curious about why the price of cards sold at auction on eBay would be considerably lower than what many here think is the true market value of those cards. If that's the case, why aren't people on this forum buying them, or bidding them up closer to the perceived market value?

I know, for instance, that if I went out and bought a brand new $400 cell phone and listed it on eBay at .99 cents, it would probably sell for $375 for so. That's basically the market price minus what I would call a "risk discount," the discount a consumer would need in order to entice them to accept the risk of buying on eBay rather then from a more established retailer. I could then list another $400 cell phone and get pretty much the same price.

Any thoughts on why the market for cards on eBay is so illiquid?

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by pbspelly

I don't quite understand this. If the VCP average is $140 and you put it on eBay for .99 cents, why would it sell for $52.50? Wouldn't other knowledgeable dealers, such as those on this forum who know the true value of the card, bid it up to at least $100 or more? Economists will tell you that the value of something is what other people are willing to pay for it. Considering the relatively wide exposure a listing gets on eBay, why isn't the eBay auction sales price the true value?

I am not saying this in order to criticize you, or say that you must have overpaid or should accept the low eBay price. I'm just curious about why the price of cards sold at auction on eBay would be considerably lower than what many here think is the true market value of those cards. If that's the case, why aren't people on this forum buying them, or bidding them up closer to the perceived market value?

I know, for instance, that if I went out and bought a brand new $400 cell phone and listed it on eBay at .99 cents, it would probably sell for $375 for so. That's basically the market price minus what I would call a "risk discount," the discount a consumer would need in order to entice them to accept the risk of buying on eBay rather then from a more established retailer. I could then list another $400 cell phone and get pretty much the same price.

Any thoughts on why the market for cards on eBay is so illiquid?

I can't control the bidding. There could be a number of factors why a high value card sold for half of the VCP average selling price. People find good deals all the time, as well as people overpay all the time as well. For every card I sell at an extreme discount, some have sold for record prices. However, the scales seem to have been tipped in the "discounts" favor, as opposed to the "record-setting" prices favor.

[bobbyw8469]

Any thoughts on why the market for cards on eBay is so illiquid?

I wouldn't say it was illiquid. It basically depends on what you are selling. PSA sells better than SGC. A Topps card of a popular player does better than an oddball, thinly traded issue of a borderline HOFer.

[Deertick]

I have re-listed items progressively lower many, many times with few page views. My original price is usually market or lower. I have then listed at the original price for a one day BIN and sold the item within hours. Success is dependent on who is looking for what, when.

[effe]

Originally Posted by Deertick

Success is dependent on who is looking for what, when.

Bingo