Minor, minor, minor 1962 variation

[JollyElm]

I know some of you enjoy finding vintage variations and I ran across one while doing my work on the 1962 green tints. In my book, I wouldn't really consider it a variation, but there are other guys who collect EVERYTHING, so this may be pertinent to you.

On the Babe Ruth Special card #135 (non green tint version), there appears a stray hair next to the 'A' in the caption. In looking at ebay and other places, I ran across 3 or 4 of them, so it's not a one time thing. But it appears in only a fraction of the cards, so it is definitely rare, for whatever that's worth. The hair must have been on the final paste up of the layout before it was photographed and turned into printing plates. The only other difference I found between the two layouts is that the black caption in the yellow box of the 'hair' card appears a little lower than in the 'normal' version. That could simply be a printing anomaly of the black plate or it may be a true differentiation between the two versions.

I dunno, but here it is...

ruth135.jpg

[savedfrommyspokes]

Good find Darren, I have not noticed this one before.

[ALR-bishop]

Me either. I tend to collect recurring print defects in older sets. Someone in a fairly recent earlier thread pointed out a similar recurring line defect in a 60s pitching leader card, I think involving Koufax. It too was scarce but fairly easy to locate on ebay. Nice find Darren ( yeah, I nailed it)

[steve B]

Most likely a scratched plate. Interesting, at least to me. It looks like it goes off the bottom border, so there should be a card with the scratch showing at the top right.

The location of the black in the panel could be a slight difference, or simply that batch having the black printed a bit out of register.

Plate scratches in general aren't all that common, once the plate is damaged it's often replaced.


Steve B

[ALR-bishop]

If they replaced a plate to correct a defect, then in my mind it would be a variation. But on most recurring print defects I assume we will never know if an intentional change was made. But I do like to collect them if recurring.

I guess if PSA believes the green smudged ball on the back of the 61 Fairly is a variation, almost anything could conceivably be so classified by chance or whim of grading companies.

Wonder if any of the other kids in the photo lived to collect that card

[rsdill2]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

If they replaced a plate to correct a defect, then in my mind it would be a variation. But on most recurring print defects I assume we will never know if an intentional change was made. But I do like to collect them if recurring.

I guess if PSA believes the green smudged ball on the back of the 61 Fairly is a variation, almost anything could conceivably be so classified by chance or whim of grading companies.

Wonder if any of the other kids in the photo lived to collect that card

Speaking of the 61 Fairly, and not to hijack this thread, but did you see what this PSA 8 sold for?

Insane. And not even a scan of the back to see how much of the green smudge is there.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by steve B

Most likely a scratched plate. Interesting, at least to me. It looks like it goes off the bottom border, so there should be a card with the scratch showing at the top right.

The location of the black in the panel could be a slight difference, or simply that batch having the black printed a bit out of register.

Plate scratches in general aren't all that common, once the plate is damaged it's often replaced.


Steve B

I looked through a number of the Frank Bolling (the card beneath the Ruth card on an uncut sheet) cards, and did not see any with this scratch on the top right.

[ALR-bishop]

Robert--wonder what a Ruth card, albeit a modern one, recognized as a variation to the 61 set would bring versus the Fairly. And you are right that while this scratch variant may be consistent in each instance it occurs, PSA is grading Fairlys with only a spec of green as a variation, as well as ones where the entire bottom of the ball is green. I would bet that if they do not show the back it is a spec version

[JollyElm]

I haven't seen any examples where the 'hair' actually goes off the bottom of the page. That's more of an illusion as it is in line with the thin piece of wood grain at the bottom of the card, making it look as though it's a continuation of the hair. Also, look at the light horizontal line at the very bottom of the card. The hair never crosses it.

[JollyElm]

Since we're talking about hairs, I thought I'd bring this card up. One of the telltale signs of the #130 green tint Frank Bolling is the stray hair appearing on his forehead. It appears as though the layout was again photographed while a hair laid atop it. I have never seen a GT version of this card without it.

130b.jpg

[callou2131]

Interesting! Thanks for the heads up. Just picked up one of these for less than $10

[goheels]

I am with Steve. I think that is a scratched plate on the Ruth card, like the 1961 Eddie Bressoud.

Is the Bolling card from a scratch? I went back and looked at my GT cards and sure enough it was there.

How does the curved line get on that card?

[JollyElm]

The reason I see it as a hair is because in the layout process back then, they put the card together as a paste up then took a picture of it to eventually create the printing plates (my version of the process is obviously abbreviated, but it tells the basics). When the Bolling layout was on the table ready for shooting, a hair was on top of it and the photographer didn't notice it. That's what makes sense to me.

[MuddyMules]

Originally Posted by steve B

Most likely a scratched plate. Interesting, at least to me. It looks like it goes off the bottom border, so there should be a card with the scratch showing at the top right.

The location of the black in the panel could be a slight difference, or simply that batch having the black printed a bit out of register.

Plate scratches in general aren't all that common, once the plate is damaged it's often replaced.


Steve B

Dead on Steve. The plate was definitely scratched. When a plate is scratched, the pressman would fill the scratch on the press with a scratch remover, to keep the job running while a new plate is made. If the fill holds up during the run, then they would not replace the plate.

[ALR-bishop]

Good post Ted. Always good to have another printing guru on here. Steve has been great on this stuff

[ALR-bishop]

Carlton mentioned the Bressound as another example of a possible scratch.

This is it. It is not hard to find

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1961-Topps-2...item258aa106d6

[MuddyMules]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Carlton mentioned the Bressound as another example of a possible scratch.

This is it. It is not hard to find

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1961-Topps-2...item258aa106d6

Another scratch in the plate, which looks like it turned into a nightmare of an attempt to repair on the press. A new cyan plate was made, which is why the color differentiates from the card on the left to the card on the right (two different make-readies on the same job).

[steve B]

Could be two different places on the sheet.

The ones that don't show the scratch don't have the nick in the top border just above it either.

The color seems to be all over the place, tough to tell from most Ebay scans if it's different, or just looks purple or grayish blue because of inking or registration.

There are a lot more with the scratch than without. Maybe 2/3 of the ones on Ebay have it. Makes me wonder if it wasn't on the mask.

Steve B

[Eric72]

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[Eric72]

Originally Posted by steve B

Could be two different places on the sheet...There are a lot more with the scratch than without. Maybe 2/3 of the ones on Ebay have it.

Steve B

I found that fewer than 10% of the examples on eBay had this printing error on the day I checked. I believe it was February 24, 2014...however...might be mistaken about the date.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Eric72

I found that fewer than 10% of the examples on eBay had this printing error on the day I checked. I believe it was February 24, 2014...however...might be mistaken about the date.

That's cool.

I was talking about the Bressoud, but getting an idea of the ratios on the others is good too.

Today's a good day for the scratches. 35 without, 7 with and 8 green tint. Still, only 20% makes it a pretty good one to pick up.

Steve B