35mm Slide Transparancy Care & Storage

[obcbeatle]

Hello:

I picked up a few Marvin Newman 35mm color slide transparencies from the recent Henry Yee auction. These are my first vintage slide transparencies. While I was waiting for the slides to arrive I bought a Kodak Carousel 5600 slide projector from our local Salvation Army for $10. I cleaned it up and it works great with these Marvin Newman slides. When I was cleaning all the lenses and mirror in the projector I noted that one of the lenses is actually "heat absorbing glass" designed to protect the slides when the projector lamp is on and viewing a slide. It got me to thinking about long term use/wear of a vintage slide in a slide projector not only from the heat of the lamp, but the potential malfunction of the slide dropping into the viewing slot from the slide tray. Anyone have any experience in this area? Obviously I need to be careful when handling the slides ... and need to scan them for digitally archiving the image(s). Unfortunately, right now I can't afford one of the nicer scanners I want for scanning slides and negatives. As for storage ... I thought I would leave each slide in the thick plastic protector that Henry Yee shipped them in, and then slip each slide into an Ultra Pro 8 pocket page (like used for 1952-56 Topps cards) in a binder. The slides seem to fit snug in the 8 pocket pages as long as they remain in the thick plastic protector, but are not too snug. Anyway ... any comments or suggestions re: long term use of vintage slides in a slide projector, and their storage are welcome. Thanks!

[Griffins]

To start, I would not project the slide unless you absolutely have to. The dyes in the film are very stable (especially if it's Kodachrome) but why tempt fate? I have seen slides burn up in there and more often seen dust bake right on the image.
Second, I'd make sure the slide is clean and free of any finger prints. Storing it in an archival sleeve is a good idea
http://www.lightimpressionsdirect.co...e-accessories/

Lastly, rather than buy a mediocre film scanner for one image, I"d send it out to a reputable service bureau for a repro quality drum scan. If you want a suggestion pm me your general area and I'll find one.

Congrats on your new acquisition.

[Frozen in Time]

Originally Posted by Griffins

To start, I would not project the slide unless you absolutely have to. The dyes in the film are very stable (especially if it's Kodachrome) but why tempt fate? I have seen slides burn up in there and more often seen dust bake right on the image.
Second, I'd make sure the slide is clean and free of any finger prints. Storing it in an archival sleeve is a good idea
http://www.lightimpressionsdirect.co...e-accessories/

Lastly, rather than buy a mediocre film scanner for one image, I"d send it out to a reputable service bureau for a repro quality drum scan. If you want a suggestion pm me your general area and I'll find one.

Congrats on your new acquisition.

Jerry,

I agree totally with these suggestions. It only takes one mistake with any slide projector and your "one of a kind" 35 mm transparency is gone forever.
I too was floored by the content and clarity of the Newman slides in Henry's auction, and find myself in the same situation. In particular, obtaining high resolution scans of the slides.

I'm new to all of this and, if I may, would like to add a few of my own questions on the subject. What are the advantages of a drum scan? Approximately, how much per slide or negative? If one was concerned about shipping out these slides, what are the alternative solutions? In my case, I would like to finally get a scanner - the best scanner I could afford to scan both my vintage photos, negatives as well as the 35 mm transparencies.

Thank you.

Craig

[thecatspajamas]

Wow Jerry, I gotta say, the thought of putting a high-dollar "slide" transparency in an old projector fails the "pucker test" for me (as in, if I find that my backside clenches at the thought of doing something, I try to go another direction rather than tempting fate). That said, they're yours now to do as you see fit with them, but you've got a bigger pair than I do, heat shield or no

Keep in mind that these were placed in slide mounts to facilitate handling when used in production, not with the intent that they would ever be placed in a projector. If that's your chosen display method, it would be advisable to have a duplication of each one made to project and keep the original stored away. As far as storing them goes, just think of it like a negative and use the same kind of procedures as were talked about before in a not-too-long-ago thread. What you described sounds very reasonable to me. There are also 20-pocket pages made specifically for slides available. I've also been known to place individual slides in a standard card toploader and store them that way right along with cards, though that can get cumbersome if you're dealing with a lot of slides, in which case I strongly recommend the pages.

Craig, if you're ever doing to be working with anything larger than 2.5" or so, there are only a couple of consumer-level flatbed scanners that I am aware of for films: the Epson V700 and Epson 4990 models. Both are out of production currently (I think. Definitely the 4990 is not currently being produced), but can be picked up on eBay pretty frequently in the $300 range. Finding one with all the original film carrier templates is a little tougher, and will probably cost you a bit more, but depending on what you're doing you may be able to get away without them. Other than those two, you start getting into professional-level scanners, and the prices jump dramatically.

[Frozen in Time]

Originally Posted by thecatspajamas

Wow Jerry, I gotta say, the thought of putting a high-dollar "slide" transparency in an old projector fails the "pucker test" for me (as in, if I find that my backside clenches at the thought of doing something, I try to go another direction rather than tempting fate). That said, they're yours now to do as you see fit with them, but you've got a bigger pair than I do, heat shield or no

Keep in mind that these were placed in slide mounts to facilitate handling when used in production, not with the intent that they would ever be placed in a projector. If that's your chosen display method, it would be advisable to have a duplication of each one made to project and keep the original stored away. As far as storing them goes, just think of it like a negative and use the same kind of procedures as were talked about before in a not-too-long-ago thread. What you described sounds very reasonable to me. There are also 20-pocket pages made specifically for slides available. I've also been known to place individual slides in a standard card toploader and store them that way right along with cards, though that can get cumbersome if you're dealing with a lot of slides, in which case I strongly recommend the pages.

Craig, if you're ever doing to be working with anything larger than 2.5" or so, there are only a couple of consumer-level flatbed scanners that I am aware of for films: the Epson V700 and Epson 4990 models. Both are out of production currently (I think. Definitely the 4990 is not currently being produced), but can be picked up on eBay pretty frequently in the $300 range. Finding one with all the original film carrier templates is a little tougher, and will probably cost you a bit more, but depending on what you're doing you may be able to get away without them. Other than those two, you start getting into professional-level scanners, and the prices jump dramatically.

Thanks Lance. I'm way overdue in getting a good scanner for my prints, slides and negatives as I've promised several members too many times now that I would begin to post my Mantle collection.

[Griffins]

the problem I've found with consumer level scanners (the epson and canoscan being the best I've seen) is that the dynamic range (the range of light to dark at which it can hold detail) is much lower. You can fix that a bit in photoshop if you're pretty good, but for getting detail and contrast you really need a drum scan (as opposed to a flatbed like the scanners above). I've never had an image printed by a client that wasn't drum scanned.
The price for a drum scan ranges from $15 up to almost $100 last I checked, although it could've come down in the last few years.
The suggestion of making a dupe slide to project is an excellent one, and that should be $3 or less. Just make sure whoever is doing it is responsible in handling the original- scratching the film is all too easy, especially a slide that isn't sleeved in acetate.

[perezfan]

They used to make hand-held slide "viewers" that you would just hold up to the light. These were great for viewing slides without using a clumsy or potentially dangerous projector. You'd just insert the slide and face it towards a light source.

There's also the kind that uses an internal bulb. A simple option, and perhaps more primitive than what you're seeking. But just thought I'd mention it, if that helps....

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_saca..._sop=12&_frs=1

[obcbeatle]

Originally Posted by thecatspajamas

Wow Jerry, I gotta say, the thought of putting a high-dollar "slide" transparency in an old projector fails the "pucker test" for me (as in, if I find that my backside clenches at the thought of doing something, I try to go another direction rather than tempting fate). That said, they're yours now to do as you see fit with them, but you've got a bigger pair than I do, heat shield or no

Keep in mind that these were placed in slide mounts to facilitate handling when used in production, not with the intent that they would ever be placed in a projector. If that's your chosen display method, it would be advisable to have a duplication of each one made to project and keep the original stored away. As far as storing them goes, just think of it like a negative and use the same kind of procedures as were talked about before in a not-too-long-ago thread. What you described sounds very reasonable to me. There are also 20-pocket pages made specifically for slides available. I've also been known to place individual slides in a standard card toploader and store them that way right along with cards, though that can get cumbersome if you're dealing with a lot of slides, in which case I strongly recommend the pages.

Craig, if you're ever doing to be working with anything larger than 2.5" or so, there are only a couple of consumer-level flatbed scanners that I am aware of for films: the Epson V700 and Epson 4990 models. Both are out of production currently (I think. Definitely the 4990 is not currently being produced), but can be picked up on eBay pretty frequently in the $300 range. Finding one with all the original film carrier templates is a little tougher, and will probably cost you a bit more, but depending on what you're doing you may be able to get away without them. Other than those two, you start getting into professional-level scanners, and the prices jump dramatically.

OK ... that is why I asked :-) I'm pretty old school and love old electronics. I occasionally still buy 8mm & 16mm film, clean it and run them on old projectors. If I find something cool enough I'll even digitize portions of the film. Anyway ... I'm probably a bottom feeder within this group in that I can't afford an original Mantle or Ruth so if I did lose one of these slides, it certainly wouldn't break the bank ... but it would be a heartfelt loss. That being said ... when I projected these slides on my family room wall it was a pretty amazing 30 minutes. I'm not sure they make a computer display that big :-) But ... I guess I'll flip this slide projector on eBay and save up for a scanner. Been down that road before when looking for something for some negatives I have. I think the Epson 4990 was what I was looking at and as Lance mentioned, the original film carrier templates are an extra cost unless you get lucky. At least that is what I seem to remember when I looked about 6 months ago. My problem is I keep spending what little money I have on old cards and photo's so I never have enough for a scanner :-) Thanks for all the replies, tips and especially the warning on using the slide projector. Much appreciated!

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by perezfan

They used to make hand-held slide "viewers" that you would just hold up to the light. These were great for viewing slides without using a clumsy or potentially dangerous projector. You'd just insert the slide and face it towards a light source.

There's also the kind that uses an internal bulb. A simple option, and perhaps more primitive than what you're seeking. But just thought I'd mention it, if that helps....

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_saca..._sop=12&_frs=1

http://www.amazon.com/Pana-Vue-2-Ill...rds=pana-vue+2
This is one that I have that is very much like what you're describing. Very simple to drop the slide in and press the big button on top to turn on the backlight which is a small internal bulb that doesn't generate enough heat to damage anything. Very basic but functional, like a single-slide-capacity light table that runs off of 2 AA batteries.

[obcbeatle]

Thanks for mentioning the slide viewers and the link to the Pana-Vue. I looked at these before I found the slide projector at the SA, but wasn't sure the viewers would project well enough. I might look into getting one of those for now. Thanks!

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by obcbeatle

Thanks for mentioning the slide viewers and the link to the Pana-Vue. I looked at these before I found the slide projector at the SA, but wasn't sure the viewers would project well enough. I might look into getting one of those for now. Thanks!

Jerry,
The viewer doesn't "project" at all, but it does magnify the slide and backlight it. So looking at it that way is like staring into about a 2"x2" TV screen, but works well in most cases.

Edited to add: Looking again at the photo shown in the Amazon listing, it's a little misleading. The slide drops into the viewer through a slot in the top just in front of that wide white rectangle which is the backlight button. What looks like a screen at the front in their photo is actually a magnifying lens, so you're still looking down into the thing at the slide in the middle of the unit, not at something projected to the front of it. It's strictly a one-at-a-time experience.

My usual process is to first hold the slide up to the light (leaning back since the light in my office is above/behind me), then if I need to see more detail or get vertigo from leaning back and sitting up too much drop it in the slide-viewer, and then if I need to see even more detail or get an image of it I go to the scanner. I guess from that point you could get a projector that would project the scanned image from your computer onto the wall, but I've never had need for that. Just depends on what you're doing as to which is most appropriate.

[obcbeatle]

Originally Posted by thecatspajamas

Jerry,
The viewer doesn't "project" at all, but it does magnify the slide and backlight it. So looking at it that way is like staring into about a 2"x2" TV screen, but works well in most cases.

Edited to add: Looking again at the photo shown in the Amazon listing, it's a little misleading. The slide drops into the viewer through a slot in the top just in front of that wide white rectangle which is the backlight button. What looks like a screen at the front in their photo is actually a magnifying lens, so you're still looking down into the thing at the slide in the middle of the unit, not at something projected to the front of it. It's strictly a one-at-a-time experience.

My usual process is to first hold the slide up to the light (leaning back since the light in my office is above/behind me), then if I need to see more detail or get vertigo from leaning back and sitting up too much drop it in the slide-viewer, and then if I need to see even more detail or get an image of it I go to the scanner. I guess from that point you could get a projector that would project the scanned image from your computer onto the wall, but I've never had need for that. Just depends on what you're doing as to which is most appropriate.

Thanks Lance ... as usual very useful information. And thanks to everyone for their replies and suggestions. One more thing I wanted to ask ... it was suggested to clean the slide transparencies. After doing a little research on this it seems there are many methods being use. Anything from gently using a new soft bristle paint brush to compressed air. I can't imagine using compressed air, and I'm not even sure about using a new paint brush. Is cleaning slides something that someone else in this group has done? I know I can try to find a reputable photo lab that might clean these slides as well as scan them for me. But even that I'm finding tough to do because there is a significant amount of trust in letting someone else handle these Marvin Newman slides. I guess I'm a do-it-yourself kind of person and don't mind learning to do things a proper way with a little instruction. Anyway ... my plan now is to buy a slide viewer as was suggested by Lance and others, then clean the slides myself if it seems like something I am capable of doing w/o damaging the slides (I would practice on some family slides first), and then eventually buy a scanner to do my own scanning. I need to further research drum scanning vs. non-drum scanning. Apparently drum scanning is best ... but very expensive. Thanks again to all that replied to my original post!

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by obcbeatle

Thanks Lance ... as usual very useful information. And thanks to everyone for their replies and suggestions. One more thing I wanted to ask ... it was suggested to clean the slide transparencies. After doing a little research on this it seems there are many methods being use. Anything from gently using a new soft bristle paint brush to compressed air. I can't imagine using compressed air, and I'm not even sure about using a new paint brush. Is cleaning slides something that someone else in this group has done? I know I can try to find a reputable photo lab that might clean these slides as well as scan them for me. But even that I'm finding tough to do because there is a significant amount of trust in letting someone else handle these Marvin Newman slides. I guess I'm a do-it-yourself kind of person and don't mind learning to do things a proper way with a little instruction. Anyway ... my plan now is to buy a slide viewer as was suggested by Lance and others, then clean the slides myself if it seems like something I am capable of doing w/o damaging the slides (I would practice on some family slides first), and then eventually buy a scanner to do my own scanning. I need to further research drum scanning vs. non-drum scanning. Apparently drum scanning is best ... but very expensive. Thanks again to all that replied to my original post!

I would avoid physically "brushing" the slide with anything if at all possible unless there is something "stuck" to it that requires you to do so. I'm sure there are brushes that are soft enough to do such a thing without scratching, but even if the brush itself doesn't scratch the film, there is the potential for whatever it picks up from the surface to scratch the film. If more extensive cleaning is needed, definitely as you say practice on some others first.

If it's just dust specks that are on the film surface, you may be surprised what a few good blasts of air will accomplish. You can either buy the "canned" variety, or if you're cheap like me, this one has worked very well for me:
http://www.amazon.com/Giottos-AA1900...ywords=giottos
It has a large bulb so that you get a good strong blast of air, and has a filter for the air coming in the back and 1-way valve for the air going out the front so that you're not sucking in and recirculating the dust you're blasting off of the slide's surface. Holding the nozzle tip close to the slide and squeezing repeatedly, you can just about pneumatically "scrub" off anything that is not physically adhered to the film surface.

[steve B]

For a viewer one of the easiest is getting a light table from an art/sewing store. Many inexpensive ones have enough area to lay out 25+ slides, or about a typical roll of films worth. Sort of an inexpensive version of the units they sold in the 70's that let you view a bunch of slides at once.

The light table can also be used upside down on top of the scanner to scan a pretty wide range of transparencies. It works well for slides and film negatives, not as well for glass negatives or glass lantern slides.

Cleaning the slides is something I'd avoid unless they were pretty bad. The emulsion side would be the hardest, the film side would be easy, but can also be scratched fairly easily.

Slides were usually kept in the boxes, or in pages so they are typically clean. Bad storage will cause a whole bunch of problems. Really bad ones can be removed from the mount cleaned and remounted, some history might be lost, as most mounts have some info on them even if it's only the sort of film and date. But if it's bad enough to remount that's not the main concern.

Steve B

[Frozen in Time]

Originally Posted by obcbeatle

Thanks Lance ... as usual very useful information. And thanks to everyone for their replies and suggestions. One more thing I wanted to ask ... it was suggested to clean the slide transparencies. After doing a little research on this it seems there are many methods being use. Anything from gently using a new soft bristle paint brush to compressed air. I can't imagine using compressed air, and I'm not even sure about using a new paint brush. Is cleaning slides something that someone else in this group has done? I know I can try to find a reputable photo lab that might clean these slides as well as scan them for me. But even that I'm finding tough to do because there is a significant amount of trust in letting someone else handle these Marvin Newman slides. I guess I'm a do-it-yourself kind of person and don't mind learning to do things a proper way with a little instruction. Anyway ... my plan now is to buy a slide viewer as was suggested by Lance and others, then clean the slides myself if it seems like something I am capable of doing w/o damaging the slides (I would practice on some family slides first), and then eventually buy a scanner to do my own scanning. I need to further research drum scanning vs. non-drum scanning. Apparently drum scanning is best ... but very expensive. Thanks again to all that replied to my original post!

Jerry,

I'm new to most of this also, but can offer a few suggestions. Drum scanning will provide better results than flatbed scanners but my understanding is that these are primarily used for film, negatives and unmounted transparencies ( the transparency has to be physically attached to the curved surface of the drum) and you don't want to remove yours from the original Newman mounts.
With respect to cleaning, there are electrostatic brushes on the market that safely remove dust, etc without damaging the surface of the film (most can be found at Photography sites on the web).
Finally, one archival product that I have had much success with in cleaning film, negatives and transparencies (including those from the '50's), is Pec-12.
When used with their wipes as instructed, my experience has been that they remove a great deal of residue (from improper developing times and washing) as well as overt markings such as ink, etc. without any damage to the surface of the transparency. And , yes, I have used this on some of the Newman slides with great results. As always, test on older unwanted home slides before using on a small portion of the Newman slide to be certain all is O.K.
With respect to scanners, I am just now looking seriously into some that will do an adequate job on both photos and negatives, film and transparencies. My preliminary research has indicated that you should be able to get one for between $150-$500 and that the software is probably just as important, if not more so, as the hardware. Those that will permit direct wet mounting of unmounted film, negatives and transparencies on the scanning platen seem to provide a noticeable increase in sharpness.

Hope some of this helps.

Cheers,

Craig