Number of open of threads on BST...?

[Leon]

I want to have a quick poll and get some feedback on a new guideline I am thinking of introducing on ALL of the Net54baseball Buy/Sell/Trade (BST) forum areas. Consideration is being given to limit the number of open threads, on the first page of each of those forums, for each member. Of course, if you have multiple items to sell, and they are in the same category anyway, they can easily be placed into the same thread. That thread can be edited and used over and over too, if the member wants to (not mandatory).
I hate rules so we'll call it a guideline if there is support for it? And if instituted, hopefully it will help everyone who uses those very active areas. ..To make the poll more accurate it will have several different options. (also, there was one of these limits instituted in the Live Auction area quite some time ago and I haven't heard anything negative about it "knock on wood")

[BradH]

My vote is "I don't care" because I've never seen much of an issue with it. By pure coincidence, though, I was just in the Baseball Memorabilia B/S/T section and as I type this (1:45 pm ET), a certain seller actually has 12 of the top 18 open threads, and each of the top nine. That seems excessive.

I've always just figured that the more open threads there are, the more choices there are for me as a buyer.

I am not nearly as bugged by multiple open threads as I am by people who CONSTANTLY bump their own items, sometimes several days in a row or even multiple times in the same day. Can you not at least wait a few days and have some common courtesy to others before you bump your items? (Sorry, rant is over - had to get that off my chest)

[Pythonfactory]

I like the idea of reducing the number of threads. If you have more cards to add in a specific section (e.g., T206), then just update your title to "Title - Updated 10/12".

[MVSNYC]

Leon, you & i have spoken about this. my vote is 2. any more than that is bit much.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by MVSNYC

Leon, you & i have spoken about this. my vote is 2. any more than that is bit much.

Yeap Michael, and that is my vote too but I don't use it a ton. If the poll continues the way it is we will have a very simple rule of 2.....but let's see how it continues....

[chaddurbin]

sellers shouldn't have b.o. either.

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by BradH

I am not nearly as bugged by multiple open threads as I am by people who CONSTANTLY bump their own items, sometimes several days in a row or even multiple times in the same day. Can you not at least wait a few days and have some common courtesy to others before you bump your items? (Sorry, rant is over - had to get that off my chest)

I voted for 2 open threads at once, but I am kind of back and forth. One of the bigger issues is that I believe you shouldn't be able to bump your thread until two full days have passed. Brad really hit it on the head with his "rant" There are several people that bump their thread every day and it gets obnoxious and it's unfair to others that list their cards/memorabilia.

I really don't have any issues with the way things are done here, but I appreciate the moderators looking out for the best interests of its members by tweaking some things if need be.

[Tobacco&Gum]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

sellers shouldn't have b.o. either.

I agree, deodorant should be mandatory

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Tobacco&Gum

I agree, deodorant should be mandatory

I thought the same thing with showers being so readily available...then I figured it might mean Best Offer.

As for the bumping every day issue, please PM me about those people. If they are doing it too frequently they will be asked not to.....then if they do it again we can take it from there. That place (BST) is very busy and folks should be respectful of others in their usage of it. And if they aren't then they can go somewhere it doesn't matter. It does here.

[MVSNYC]

Bump

[sayhey24]

Originally Posted by MVSNYC

Bump

+1

[Piratedogcardshows]

I voted for two per.One buying and one selling should be sufficient IMO.

[shammus]

I voted for 3, however this gives flexibility to have a couple different threads throughout the page which is probably ok. I think it gets excessive and bothers some people when there's, for instance, 5 consecutive threads right at the top.

[ramram]

Great idea. I vote for 2. Some sellers have tried to make the B/S/T their own personal selling venue.

Rob M.

[quinnsryche]

Does the rule count if you are bumping to update (like lowering the price)? I know a lot of guys are talking about me, but I only bump when I lower my asking price (which is quite often). I never bump just to put it to the top.
It's funny, I never hear any complaints from the guys who buy from me, it's only the ones I never hear from.
One other thing, there is a problem with grouping stuff together. Many collectors won't take the time to scroll through a long list and there is an 18 scan max per listing. For example, I had 2 items mixed in with a large group of items that went unsold. I listed 2 of the items separately and sold them both in a 1/2 an hour.
I will abide by any rule but it seems to work pretty well as is and the whiners should try and actually buy something every now and then instead of complaining to Leon all the time.
Just sayin'.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by quinnsryche

Does the rule count if you are bumping to update (like lowering the price)? I know a lot of guys are talking about me, but I only bump when I lower my asking price (which is quite often). I never bump just to put it to the top.
It's funny, I never hear any complaints from the guys who buy from me, it's only the ones I never hear from.
One other thing, there is a problem with grouping stuff together. Many collectors won't take the time to scroll through a long list and there is an 18 scan max per listing. For example, I had 2 items mixed in with a large group of items that went unsold. I listed 2 of the items separately and sold them both in a 1/2 an hour.
I will abide by any rule but it seems to work pretty well as is and the whiners should try and actually buy something every now and then instead of complaining to Leon all the time.
Just sayin'.

If the thread/poll continues the way it is then the rule will be 2 open threads in each category, period. So if you bump one previously started, then that is one and you will have one more that can be open (in that category). I get quite a few PMs and emails about this and I think if we limit the number of open threads per category it will take care of some issues. If you have multiple things for sale just put them in one thread...if the scans are too large then make them smaller. I am always here to help with things like that. If we institute a rule then there will be some leniency at first so folks can get accustomed to it. I really don't think it's a big deal but the limit would help on a few levels. LL

[marcdelpercio]

Could somebody please define what is meant by an "open" thread? For example, I have listed three separate large T206 lots over the past few weeks...one beater lot, one raw lot, and one graded lot. Once they are listed, I never personally bump them more than once every 3-4 days at the most, and generally not even that often. However, many other people bump the threads periodically to let me know that they sent a message, received cards, etc. So I can see a scenario where those three may have coincidentally been bumped to the first page at the same time, even though they were listed a couple of weeks apart. All that said, I definitely agree that a thread limit is a good idea and two seems like a very reasonable number.

[GoldenAge50s]

The current rule says 2-3 threads & I think that is just right, so I voted for 3.

[quinnsryche]

Originally Posted by Leon

If the thread/poll continues the way it is then the rule will be 2 open threads in each category, period. So if you bump one previously started, then that is one and you will have one more that can be open (in that category). I get quite a few PMs and emails about this and I think if we limit the number of open threads per category it will take care of some issues. If you have multiple things for sale just put them in one thread...if the scans are too large then make them smaller. I am always here to help with things like that. If we institute a rule then there will be some leniency at first so folks can get accustomed to it. I really don't think it's a big deal but the limit would help on a few levels. LL

It's not that the scans are too large, there is an 18 scan maximum period. If you have, for example a signed baseball, and you want to show all the panels, that's 6 scans per ball. That means you can only have 3 signed balls per listing.
That's my dilemma on that issue.
I have a suggestion I am sure nobody wants to hear, how about paying for listings. Ebay charges 30 cents per and then a percentage. How about a flat fee to list and then no one can complain about how many posts because we are paying for them?
I LOVE the B/S/T, it's a great place to sell (for me) and buy (for others). Limiting to 2 threads is really going to diminish the amount of items available. I think the items will stagnate and it will become boring. I would rather pay to have the outlet open to me than be limited to the amount I can offer to other collectors.
I just got off the phone with one of my regulars and he completely agrees with me. He said he doesn't even bother looking at posts that are non-specific and knows many other also do not.
Whatever the majority thinks, just my 2 cents.

[ibuysportsephemera]

I vote for unlimited. I have found lots of cool things on the BST and would have missed items because they were buried in a thread that was not specific to what is being sold.

Just my 2¢.

Jeff

[Lordstan]

As a seller, I am more concerned with being bumped to the second page the same day I list or update than I am about people not reading my post because the title is nonspecific. I don't think more than 10% of people get to page 2.
I think if the rules change and sellers need to group things, the buyers will start reading them.
If you have too many pictures, then use the first 2 or 3 posts in you thread to show your items. I just did this exact thing in my most recent for sale listing.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by GoldenAge50s

The current rule says 2-3 threads & I think that is just right, so I voted for 3.

+1 I also voted 3, I think it is great the way it is. I have never listed anything but have bought several items and wish there was actually more to choose from because of the great/easy deals on here. I am happy we have a few sellers on here listing there cards for me to buy. I hope more restrictions does not cause them to list there cards someplace else.

[BradH]

Originally Posted by quinnsryche

Does the rule count if you are bumping to update (like lowering the price)? I know a lot of guys are talking about me, but I only bump when I lower my asking price (which is quite often). I never bump just to put it to the top.

Tony - I was not specifically referring to you about bumping. In fact, off the top of my head I can't even think of any names who are guilty of this. And, I have no problem with an item being bumped due to a price adjustment.

BUT...I often see bumps on items late in the day that were originally posted earlier that same day. Or I've looked at items that were bumped four days in a row. I've seen it happen to items despite the fact that they have had hundreds of views. Why the need to keep bumping??

Anyway, not trying to derail the point of the thread/poll. Just asking people to be aware of it and have courtesy to others.

[39special]

Originally Posted by ibuysportsephemera

I vote for unlimited. I have found lots of cool things on the BST and would have missed items because they were buried in a thread that was not specific to what is being sold.

Just my 2¢.

Jeff

+1

[Leon]

I was waiting for some good arguments against what the general consensus was being and there were some. I want the best solution for the the most members and the one that causes the best trading experiences possible. That being said, from some PMs and emails I get, the folks who post a ton of stuff at a time or bump their threads too often, lessen the experience of themselves and others. But I also understand that part of the allure of our BST is the number of people using it and the amount of things listed. So it's quite the conundrum. I can see good points to both arguments.

[EvilKing00]

Originally Posted by ibuysportsephemera

I vote for unlimited. I have found lots of cool things on the BST and would have missed items because they were buried in a thread that was not specific to what is being sold.

Just my 2¢.

Jeff

Agree

[sayhey24]

Mark V. is absolutely right. Sellers who abide by the rules are penalized by those who list 10-15 small items at once in 10-15 separate threads. It seems to really happen on the memorabilia side.
While I appreciate the idea from one seller to pay for listings, and I like the idea of Leon somehow being compensated by those who use the BST as their personal business site, I never thought that was the purpose of the BST.

Greg

[quinnsryche]

Leon, how about not limiting the amount of items listed but go with the no bumps for 2-3 days. I would be all for that, no problem. The item limit would really hurt for those with a lot of different items to offer. It doesn't seem to be the amount of items for sale, just the bumping to the top too often (guilty).
At least that what it looks like to me.

[t206blogcom]

Keep it as it is. If it isn't broken, don't try to fix it.

[Sean1125]

I believe that unlimited is ridiculous, I normally keep it to one buying thread in the BST and at most one or two selling threads.

My personal belief is any more than three threads are posted at once from any individual it muddies it up - I highly doubt that any member could not consolidate 15 threads into three, even if they have to expand the title or make a second post to include another list or more images.

As you discussed with me a few months ago Leon, roughly FOUR days for a bump is very reasonable - especially when people aren't posting 5-10 different threads and constantly bumping them. Four days means typically the post has fallen to the second page so it gives other peoples post time to be at the top and viewed while you can then get it back to the top and viewable after others have had a shot.

Hope my opinion helps, best on any decision.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by quinnsryche

Leon, how about not limiting the amount of items listed but go with the no bumps for 2-3 days. I would be all for that, no problem. The item limit would really hurt for those with a lot of different items to offer. It doesn't seem to be the amount of items for sale, just the bumping to the top too often (guilty).
At least that what it looks like to me.

Let's keep debating it. I am not against what you are saying, if it will work? I don't have my mind made up at all. I really want what is best for everyone. As for there ever being any "pay for" BST, I am not interested. It will never happen on my watch, but thanks for the thought.

[Eric72]

I voted to keep things as-is.

My first line of reasoning stems from my personal experience on the B/S/T. I have done much more buying than selling, and I typically post within the thread to announce that the card has arrived safely. Understanding that this could just as easily be done through a PM, I prefer to send this message publicly so that others on this Board know that the seller followed through on their promise to deliver the good(s) agreed upon, in a timely fashion. If a limit is instituted, I would be reluctant to do this for a seller, thereby removing the only “feedback” we have on Net54, thereby making Caveat Emptor more incumbent upon the buyer and leaving them in a less informed, less favorable position.

My second line of reasoning revolves around format. Net54 was founded upon the ideal that fewer rules are better than more rules. In my humble opinion, B/S/T issues should be handled on a case-by-case basis. For example, people who try to sell a fake ’58 Mantle here should be dealt with harshly.

Best Regards,
Eric

[batsballsbases]

I voted for 3 myself. But I am also in favor of someone not bumping there items back to the top every 3-4 hours. It seems the items get bumped anyway when someone either wants to buy it or someone posts lets say PM sent. In any event a bump every 3-4 days would be fine .

[batsballsbases]

Originally Posted by Eric72

I voted to keep things as-is.

My first line of reasoning stems from my personal experience on the B/S/T. I have done much more buying than selling, and I typically post within the thread to announce that the card has arrived safely. Understanding that this could just as easily be done through a PM, I prefer to send this message publicly so that others on this Board know that the seller followed through on their promise to deliver the good(s) agreed upon, in a timely fashion. If a limit is instituted, I would be reluctant to do this for a seller, thereby removing the only “feedback” we have on Net54, thereby making Caveat Emptor more incumbent upon the buyer and leaving them in a less informed, less favorable position.

My second line of reasoning revolves around format. Net54 was founded upon the ideal that fewer rules are better than more rules. In my humble opinion, B/S/T issues should be handled on a case-by-case basis. For example, people who try to sell a fake ’58 Mantle here should be dealt with harshly.

Best Regards,
Eric

+2 on the selling of that 58 fake mantle!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Eric72

I voted to keep things as-is.

My first line of reasoning stems from my personal experience on the B/S/T. I have done much more buying than selling, and I typically post within the thread to announce that the card has arrived safely. Understanding that this could just as easily be done through a PM, I prefer to send this message publicly so that others on this Board know that the seller followed through on their promise to deliver the good(s) agreed upon, in a timely fashion. If a limit is instituted, I would be reluctant to do this for a seller, thereby removing the only “feedback” we have on Net54, thereby making Caveat Emptor more incumbent upon the buyer and leaving them in a less informed, less favorable position.

My second line of reasoning revolves around format. Net54 was founded upon the ideal that fewer rules are better than more rules. In my humble opinion, B/S/T issues should be handled on a case-by-case basis. For example, people who try to sell a fake ’58 Mantle here should be dealt with harshly.

Best Regards,
Eric

Good thoughts Eric.....thanks

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by Eric72

I voted to keep things as-is.

My first line of reasoning stems from my personal experience on the B/S/T. I have done much more buying than selling, and I typically post within the thread to announce that the card has arrived safely. Understanding that this could just as easily be done through a PM, I prefer to send this message publicly so that others on this Board know that the seller followed through on their promise to deliver the good(s) agreed upon, in a timely fashion.

I agree with Eric. I, too, make a post on the original sale thread when I get my cards in. If I have a great experience (and every single one thus far has been great), I want potential buyers to know that. It also allows me to express my appreciation to the seller (though I usually send a personal thank you via pm as well).

As far as limiting the number of threads, I don't think anybody should ever need more than three active topics at a time. It's just too easy to edit when new cards have been added, etc. Making a new topic for each individual card being sold is overkill.

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by Eric72

Net54 was founded upon the ideal that fewer rules are better than more rules.

I never knew this. Thanks.

[steve B]

I voted for four. Not that I think four is a good limit or that any particular number is.

Obviously unlimited won't work. Eventually someone will list Half.com/Ebay style and list a whole 70's set one card at a time. And I'm sure we don't want that.

But I can also see someone selling maybe a couple lots, and two or three expensive cards.

I think it's appropriate to allow an individual thread for an expensive item, and if there are a few from the same person at once I could see 4 or more.

I only have cheap stuff to sell, and post seldom anyway. I don't think I've bothered bumping any of them since most have stayed on the front page for a few days. If it's not wanted in that time, letting it slide into history s the only sensible thing.
But if I had to sell a few better items, I'd probably want them in their own thread.

Steve B

[jerrys]

2

I agree with Brad. Most bumping is selfish and an unfair means to jump to the top and push others down.

Curious: how many bumps does it take to convince a seller that there is no interest in what he is selling?

[t206blogcom]

Originally Posted by Eric72

Net54 was founded upon the ideal that fewer rules are better than more rules.

+1

[tonyo]

Originally Posted by steve B

................Obviously unlimited won't work. Eventually someone will list Half.com/Ebay style and list a whole 70's set one card at a time. And I'm sure we don't want that.

But I can also see someone selling maybe a couple lots, and two or three expensive cards.

I think it's appropriate to allow an individual thread for an expensive item, and if there are a few from the same person at once I could see 4 or more.

.................But if I had to sell a few better items, I'd probably want them in their own thread.

Steve B

Steve's post reflects how I feel about the issue. I voted for three as the guideline.

Seems grouping similarly priced (or conditioned) items works from both a buyers and sellers perspective.

Tony

[camlov2]

Originally Posted by Eric72

I have done much more buying than selling, and I typically post within the thread to announce that the card has arrived safely. Understanding that this could just as easily be done through a PM, I prefer to send this message publicly so that others on this Board know that the seller followed through on their promise to deliver the good(s) agreed upon, in a timely fashion. If a limit is instituted, I would be reluctant to do this for a seller, thereby removing the only “feedback” we have on Net54, thereby making Caveat Emptor more incumbent upon the buyer and leaving them in a less informed, less favorable position.
Eric

I assume that you post in the thread when you are interested in the item? "PM sent" or something like that?

If so you could always just edit that post to add that you purchased the item and everything arrived as described. This method wouldn't bump the thread since there wasn't a new post made. Buyers could still search their previous FS threads and see you were a happy customer.

just a thought...

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by camlov2

I assume that you post in the thread when you are interested in the item? "PM sent" or something like that?

If so you could always just edit that post to add that you purchased the item and everything arrived as described. This method wouldn't bump the thread since there wasn't a new post made. Buyers could still search their previous FS threads and see you were a happy customer.

just a thought...

+1

Even though the intent is well-meaning, the end result is other peoples' posts are getting pushed down for an "I got the card and it's great" bump.

Newcomers to the board seem to have come to the conclusion that the B/S/T needs some kind of feedback system, when in actuality it has thrived for many, many years without one. My guess is if a buyer doesn't receive an item he has paid for, the board will hear about it in no time flat.

[GoldenAge50s]

Good idea Brian---edit your post or send a PM/EM if you want to thank your Seller---No need to bump a dead thread/sold item to the top.

I still think "unlimited" threads will cause log-jams & constant bumping--2-3 open is ideal. If you want more listings or are trying to make a business out of the BST, go to EBay---that's what it was invented for!

[baseballart]

Originally Posted by ibuysportsephemera

I vote for unlimited. I have found lots of cool things on the BST and would have missed items because they were buried in a thread that was not specific to what is being sold.

Just my 2¢.

Jeff

I agree.

[Deertick]

One additional 'rule' would help a lot:
Do not reply to say "PM sent" (it's redundant as it pops up as you login), "Nice card", "I got it", or "Sold". Sellers can edit title to indicate that it is no longer available (PLEASE ) One exception would be a bump to say "sent to ebay" or something to that effect.

[glchen]

I think a seller should be able to bump more often if the price is lowered as opposed to not lowered. (e.g., something like price change can be bumped once every 2 days, and no price change can be bumped once per week.) I said unlimited amount of threads per category, but obviously, there has to be a limit b/c someone can't have 50+ threads open at one time if they have a bunch of stuff to sell. Maybe a limit of 10 threads, but they can only bump 2 threads per week maximum even if they lower the price for 2+ threads.

[Rob D.]

Jim,

The PM system on 54 can be unstable at times. I understand why people post that they've sent a PM. I've done it at least once and had the seller reply that he had not received my PM (I think he eventually received it -- the next day).

Edited to add: All of this boils down to character. On the surface a rule saying a thread can be bumped only if the seller lowers a price sounds good. But it's pretty obvious that there are sellers who start at a ridiculously high price so they can "bump for price reduction" the next day .. and the next ... and the next .. and the next. Go browse old B/S/T posts, and examples of this will quickly become apparent.

Any rule can be skirted by someone who thinks the B/S/T is his personal flea market or Pawn Stars set. If you have people whose only goal is to try to get over on someone, rules are pretty worthless. If you have good people, most rules aren't needed.

[Leon]

I just hope everyone is seeing how difficult a final decision is going to be. It is quite obvious not everyone will be happy. Please keep the comments and suggestions coming....eventually a decision will be made, I promise. That decision could be to leave it alone or make a limit on the number of open threads, as is being discussed. I might start these threads thinking one thing but then as suggestions and comments come in, change my mind. I hope folks don't think I am wishy washy as much as open to suggestion on what is best for our forum. Thanks to everyone who has chimed in so far.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

Jim,

The PM system on 54 can be unstable at times. I understand why people post that they've sent a PM. I've done it at least once and had the seller reply that he had not received my PM (I think he eventually received it -- the next day).

Our hosting company has had to restart the mail service several times, especially when they clear out old files (when I post about board hiccups or slowness is generally when it's happened). Also, unsubscribing from the auction emails that are sent out has caused a few not to receive PMs.