Casey Stengel and the 1909 Kansas City Red Sox

[Runscott]

I recently received a postcard of the Kansas City Red Sox, featuring Casey Stengel. MLB Reference states that Stengel had 4 at bats for the Kansas City Blues in 1910. My assumption was that since he was already in Kansas City, Stengel supplemented his income by joining a semi-pro team. I was wrong about this.

This article Stengel with Aurora in 1911 describes his time playing for Aurora in 1911. It also has a gallery of photos, including one of Stengel with the KC Red Sox - while he's not wearing a sweater as he is in my photo, it's clearly the same player, and he is wearing the same jersey in both photos. This makes sense given that he only played for the team for part of one summer.

Click on the small 'gallery' image of Stengel to the left to get a larger image and the following text below the photo: "Casey Stengel with the Kansas City Red Sox, one season before he came to Aurora. Photo courtesy Baseball Hall of Fame". There is also a website run by Casey Stengel's great-nephew that includes the same photo of Stengel in his gallery of Stengel photos: Stengel with the 1909 KC Red Sox

Phil mentioned that it made more sense to him that if Stengel had played semi-pro ball, he would have done so prior to his professional career. Phil was correct. David Rudd took a look at the postcard today and felt that it is period. Later today he sent me the following article from the Kansas City Times of May 15, 1909 (Thanks, David).



The article comes from a website Stengel KC Red Sox box scores from 1909 which also features several great photos of Stengel while he played sports in high school, along with descriptions (click on the arrows at the top to navigate). Here is the text that accompanies the newspaper clippings shown above:

"In summer 1909, Charles Dillon "Dutch" Stengel played on a Kansas City baseball team that toured as far as western Kansas. Above, The Kansas City Times of May 15, 1909, notified Stengel and other players to meet at the Ninth and Main streets for a trip to Leavenworth, probably by streetcar and interurban. The game was rained out. Below: Six weeks later, the Red Sox, with Stengel listed as pitcher, beat a team in Oberlin in northwest Kansas. The report was in The Kansas City Times of June 30, 1909."

I had planned to visit Kansas City this summer and check old newspapers for evidence that Stengel had played semi-pro ball in Kansas City during 1910. I'm really glad I didn't have to do that, as I would have found nothing, and certainly would not have gone back and checked 1909.

[Runscott]

Here is the 1909 KC Red Sox team:



Top row: Merkel, Bidwell (manager?), unk, unk, unk, Stengel, unk, Bottom row: Lindgrove, unk, unk, Resaler (Ressler?) -(Players i.d.'d based on 1908 KC Bentons cabinet)

Here are the Stengel images from the two KC Red Sox postcards, and another showing Stengel while with Brooklyn:

[slidekellyslide]

Nice score!

[Runscott]

Thanks, Dan.

[Runscott]

Here's a February 13, 1910 article describing Stengel's upcoming tryout with the Kansas City Blues. Note that it mentions Stengel had played ball with the Kansas City Red Sox the previous summer:

http://www.kansascity.com/2008/10/22...y-stengel.html

"Dutch" Stengel, the Central High School athlete, has been signed and will get a tryout with the Blues this spring. Stengel played with the Kansas City Red Sox last summer. He is a good hitter and a fast outfielder."

[Runscott]

At bottom is a September 20, 1908 line-up from the Kansas City Star listing Stengel second in the lineup and playing second base for the Bentons in an upcoming game in Kansas City, Kansas. This is significant because the Benton players are i.d.'d on the back of the team cabinet photo shown further down in this post, and at least five of them (see Red Sox i.d.'s below postcard, above) are also members of the 1909 KC Red Sox team. Since one of them is listed as the manager on the Bentons cabinet, it looks like the team changed names for the 1909 season.

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2008/10/22...#storylink=cpy



REA sold a cabinet of the Kansas City Bentons back in 2008. From the auction description: "(Interestingly, the players are identified in print on the reverse, but Stengel is misidentified; the sheet lists him in the middle row, though he is clearly standing in the upper left.) Stengel, who was about sixteen-years-old at the time of the photo, ..."

I think the actual i.d. on the back of the photo is correct: 2nd from left, but he would have been 18. It's kind of weird that auction houses can't even i.d. players in photos when they have the correct i.d. written on the photo

Note: Several of the players shown below are also in the 1909 KC Red Sox photo. I was able to i.d. five, but there might be more.

[drc]

I'm sorry, but no one in any of these pictures looks like Honus Wagner.

[bmarlowe1]

Scott posted: REA sold a cabinet of the Kansas City Bentons back in 2008. From the auction description: "(Interestingly, the players are identified in print on the reverse, but Stengel is misidentified; the sheet lists him in the middle row, though he is clearly standing in the upper left.) Stengel, who was about sixteen-years-old at the time of the photo, ..."

I think the actual i.d. on the back of the photo is correct: 2nd from left, but he would have been 18. It's kind of weird that auction houses can't even i.d. players in photos when they have the correct i.d. written on the photo


[/quote]

Scott - you are right - the guy in the back row enlarged above is definitely not Stengel.

[Runscott]

SGC currently has this postcard. While at the National, I left it with them, along with a printout of this thread. If anyone has thoughts on additional documentation,etc., that I could provide them, to help with the i.d., please let me know.

Mark F - if you have thoughts on the facial comparisons it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks all.

[xcgrammer]

[Al C.risafulli]

This is great stuff, Scott. I've got a small collection of stuff from throughout Casey's life, but very little from this early. It's fascinating to see. Thanks for sharing (and nice score on the postcard!).

-Al

[Runscott]

Thanks Al. Sorry I missed your response initially.

Jason - thanks for posting that article about Stengel's 59 games in 1910. I was unaware of that.

I had thought about writing an article about Casey's pre-Major League days, but most of it is well-documented in Creamer's biography. The only problem is that Creamer decided that it was unnecessary to cite his sources, providing instead, a one-page disclaimer indicating that it would be too difficult to indicate everyone who had contributed

Wish I could use that disclaimer when publishing.

[Runscott]

Pardon me for reviving a dead thread, but this just arrived from SGC and I wanted to place the photo in the appropriate thread. Thanks to Mark F for providing a facial comparison (Stengel from this RPPC with Stengel from 1909 KC Red Sox i.d.'d Stengel KC Red Sox image at the HOF), which helped SGC get this taken care of, to Earl at SGC for handling and Brian at REA for helping me work with SGC at the National.

[bcbgcbrcb]

Nice work, Scott. I know that you put a lot of effort into this one and SGC got it right.