Brown. Black & Blue, Boners & Balks - The B thread

[frankbmd]

No, my friends, this is not another mundane T206 thread about Ed Abbaticchio's sleeves, but rather a brief trivia question for your entertainment and edification (too clever).

What distinction do Mordecai and Vida share?

Other than,

they both have three or more fingers or,

they both have colorful last names.

[jp1216]

Switch hitting pitchers?

[frankbmd]

It's cruel to kill a trivia thread in 17 minutes if you know the answer.

Maybe I should have asked what their genealogic connection was.

Both are related to Abbaticchio's sleeves.


Blue's lifetime BA of .103 might qualify him for the worst switch hitter of all time. I'll let someone else check this out.

[Craig M]

A mighty fine talent indeed!

(without using google or any other search engine) can you tell me what the rarest talent in baseball is?

Craig

[frankbmd]

The ambidextrous pitcher.

[Craig M]

With your quick two minute response you definitely just killed your own thread : ).

Headed to work; have a great day Frank.

Craig


EDIT NOTE: The first baseball player to pitch righty and lefty in the same game was Louisville's Tony Mullane in 1882.

[Paul S]

Shows what I know. I would have said drag bunt from either of them batting righty.

[EvilKing00]

ok, ok since we are going with easy trivia here, lets put a clock on this one too, lol.

There are 7 ways to get to 1st base, what are they?

[4815162342]

1. hit
2. error
3. base on balls
4. hit by pitch
5. dropped third strike
6. catcher's interference
7. (the hard one) Fielder's choice

[Leon]

Originally Posted by EvilKing00

ok, ok since we are going with easy trivia here, lets put a clock on this one too, lol.

There are 7 ways to get to 1st base, what are they?

Actually there are 8, but can you name the other?

[4815162342]

fielder's interference?

[cubsfan-budman]

balk?

[Leon]

the interference by fielder we can count as the catcher interference...the balk is possible but there is another....

[4815162342]

Hmm, how about 23?

1. Walk
2. Intentional walk
3. Hit by pitch
4. Dropped third strike
5. Failure to deliver pitch within 20 seconds
6. Catcher interference
7. Fielder interference
8. Spectator interference
9. Fan obstruction
10. Fair ball hits umpire
11. Fair ball hits runner
12. Fielder obstucts runner
13. Pinch-runner
14. Fielder's choice
15. Force out at another base
16. Proceding runner put-out allows batter to reach first
17. Sac bunt fails to advance runner
18. Sac fly dropped
19. Runner called out on appeal
20. Error
21. Four illegal pitches
22. If a game is suspended with a runner on first and that player is traded prior to makeup, another player can take his place
23. Single

[Leon]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

Hmm, how about 23?

1. Walk
2. Intentional walk
3. Hit by pitch
4. Dropped third strike
5. Failure to deliver pitch within 20 seconds
6. Catcher interference
7. Fielder interference
8. Spectator interference
9. Fan obstruction
10. Fair ball hits umpire
11. Fair ball hits runner
12. Fielder obstucts runner
13. Pinch-runner
14. Fielder's choice
15. Force out at another base
16. Proceding runner put-out allows batter to reach first
17. Sac bunt fails to advance runner
18. Sac fly dropped
19. Runner called out on appeal
20. Error
21. Four illegal pitches
22. If a game is suspended with a runner on first and that player is traded prior to makeup, another player can take his place
23. Single

Fine then .....I was thinking # 13

[cubsfan-budman]

No balk though...does that just advance a runner already on base?

[Craig M]

...and there's even more!

Hopefully Frank will chime in here telling us about how he got to first base!

[Cardboard Junkie]

Pretty sure it involves that Vassar girl we heard about. Dave.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

Pretty sure it involves that Vassar girl we heard about. Dave.

Dave,

That was a home run, I don't think I even touched first base.

[Luke]

Blue's lifetime BA of .103 might qualify him for the worst switch hitter of all time. I'll let someone else check this out.[/QUOTE]

Justin Smoak is giving Vida a run for this distinction. And I have to watch it every day because Wedge keeps running him out there.

[Cardboard Junkie]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Dave,

That was a home run, I don't think I even touched first base.

For some reason THAT made me think of this card.

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

No balk though...does that just advance a runner already on base?

Yes, balk only advances runners already on base.. Would never get you to first

[Bocabirdman]

Originally Posted by itjclarke

Yes, balk only advances runners already on base.. Would never get you to first

A balk on a three ball count WOULD give the batter first base as a balk is called a ball.......

[frankbmd]

If you believe in devolution, this thread is for you. Fortunately this is a primarily a baseball forum. The range of topics touched upon so far have only one thing in common, the letter B. Therefore I liken the thread's current content to an episode of "Sesame Street" featuring the letter B. Specifically Episode 1845,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odjpnU28tws

A few corrections to prior posts are i order. I suggest changing the following:

Switch-hitters shall henceforth be known as bi-sided hitters.
Ambidextrous pitchers can be referred to simply as bi-dextrous pitchers.
Dropped third strikes should be Bad Catcher Play or Catcher Boner if you prefer.

The thread will welcome all "B" related content: literary, audio and visual.

So instead of considering this thread as a 17 minute wipe out, sing along and let the B games begin

Sunny Day
Sweepin' the clouds away
On my way to where the air is sweet

Can you tell me how to get,
How to get to Sesame Street

Addendum: EK's post below has me worried. i admit that the reference to the B Song is a copy and paste, but not the Sesame Street song (I know it by heart).

[EvilKing00]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

1. hit
2. error
3. base on balls
4. hit by pitch
5. dropped third strike
6. catcher's interference
7. (the hard one) Fielder's choice

oooo, looked it up on line, coppy and paste - ugh - http://www.infosports.com/baseball/camp/quiz/74.htm

[Craig M]

OK Frank, I guess I will bite on your "B" thread!!!


BAGINA - A fat girls flab that hangs over past her vagina.


sorry

[keating3620]

FYI- there is a bar 1/2 block from Wrigley Field named Merkle's. Great story in Cub history

[Craig M]

I'm on a roll...

Since this a baseball thread, here's one for you.

When I played baseball, there was always a guy on the team that was sucking up to the coach to get playing time. We referred to that guy as a

Ball-Bag Licker

[Cardboard Junkie]

"B" Arthur

[DaveW]

Good Lord David, I didn't need to see that picture of BA! I read that that painting recently sold for around $2 million! You could get a nice T206 Wagner for that.

[Cardboard Junkie]

Ha ha ha! Check out the watercooler thread about the Barnett Newman work. You could buy 20 Wags for the cost of the Barnett. (Barnett has a "B" in it....so it qualifys for this thread.

[Cardboard Junkie]

Can't do a "B" thread without the King!

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by Bocabirdman

A balk on a three ball count WOULD give the batter first base as a balk is called a ball.......

Most balks I'm aware of can only occur when a runner is on base, and once the pitcher comes set. Most do not involve a pitch.. Once set, if you bend you knees, don't come fully set, take your hand out of the glove, step toward the plate, etc without throwing a pitch you're "deceiving the runner" hence a balk (no change in count). If you do something crazy and fall down, and the ball comes out, it may be a balk if a runner is on base.. But think this would only be considered a ball if no runners are on and pitching from the wind up... In either case the runner would reach first on "ball" four rather than on the balk.. Right???? That's how I'd understood it.

Please explain a balk/ball 4 scenario with runners and/or with no runners.. I'm very curious since I was a pitcher in my younger days.

[Bocabirdman]

Originally Posted by itjclarke

Most balks I'm aware of can only occur when a runner is on base, and once the pitcher comes set. Most do not involve a pitch.. Once set, if you bend you knees, don't come fully set, take your hand out of the glove, step toward the plate, etc without throwing a pitch you're "deceiving the runner" hence a balk (no change in count). If you do something crazy and fall down, and the ball comes out, it may be a balk if a runner is on base.. But think this would only be considered a ball if no runners are on and pitching from the wind up... In either case the runner would reach first on "ball" four rather than on the balk.. Right???? That's how I'd understood it.

Please explain a balk/ball 4 scenario with runners and/or with no runners.. I'm very curious since I was a pitcher in my younger days.

I lifted this.....When a balk is made on a pitch that is a 4th ball, it shall be ruled the same as when the batter hits a balk pitch and is safe on a hit or error, provided all runners advance at least one base on the play. Therefore, with a runner on 1st, 1st and 2nd, or 1st, 2nd and 3rd, when a balk is called on the 4th ball, the batter goes to 1st base and all runners advance at least one base. If they attempt to advance more than one base, they do so at their own risk.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

For some reason THAT made me think of this card.

And to answer the obvious question, yes, I do have the sense of humor of a 10-year-old...

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by Bocabirdman

I lifted this.....When a balk is made on a pitch that is a 4th ball, it shall be ruled the same as when the batter hits a balk pitch and is safe on a hit or error, provided all runners advance at least one base on the play. Therefore, with a runner on 1st, 1st and 2nd, or 1st, 2nd and 3rd, when a balk is called on the 4th ball, the batter goes to 1st base and all runners advance at least one base. If they attempt to advance more than one base, they do so at their own risk.

I may be wrong but I think in the matter of a balk followed by a pitch and/or ball in play certain events overrule others. If a balk occurs and is followed by a safe hit.. The balk is overlooked and the hit stands.. If followed by an out (say a pop out) the balk stands and any runner advances... If followed by a ball four, the "ball" supersedes the balk and the batter takes first base. I think regardless, the batter is awarded first base on the basis of base on balls, and per your situation the runners are advancing by virtuebone same base on balls that forces them forward a base. A 3 ball count balk in and of its self (without a ball four), like not coming fully set/bending knees, etc would not result in the batter taking first, only in the runners advancing.

Regardless, I don't envy MLB umpires... Even if they did butcher those calls last week.

[itjclarke]

.

[itjclarke]

Adding- regardless I'd think the vast majority (90% +) of balks are called and enforced prior to the pitch, for any (and many more) of the aforementioned infractions. About the only way I could imagine a balk resulting in a live pitch is if the pitcher doesn't come fully set at the waist prior to making his movement toward the plate.. That call would have to be instantaneous to stop the pitch and if the 2nd base umpire rather than the home plate umpire, makes the call, it may allow for a pitch to be thrown.

I'm firing from the hip here (traveling/using phone only) but if anyone with good Google access could clarify further, I'd love to read more. Balks confused me enough when I was playing.

[Bocabirdman]

Originally Posted by itjclarke

I may be wrong but I think in the matter of a balk followed by a pitch and/or ball in play certain events overrule others. If a balk occurs and is followed by a safe hit.. The balk is overlooked and the hit stands.. If followed by an out (say a pop out) the balk stands and any runner advances... If followed by a ball four, the "ball" supersedes the balk and the batter takes first base. I think regardless, the batter is awarded first base on the basis of base on balls, runners on base advance by virtue of the balk. And a 3 ball count balk in and of its self (without a ball four), like not coming fully set/bending knees, etc would not result in the batter taking first.

Regardless, I don't envy MLB umpires... Even if they did butcher those calls last week.

The longer I think about this the more my head hurts. After going to the instant replay booth, I concede a mis-interpretation on my part. Either way the guy gets 1st base....Balk or ball four........

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by Bocabirdman

The longer I think about this the more my head hurts. After going to the instant replay booth., I concede a mis-interpretaion on my part. Either way the guy gets 1st base....Balk or ball four........

I agree, my head and thumbs hurt. It's fun to hate the umps, but those guys have to keep a lot of crap straight, and in front of 50 millionaires, 45,000 fans, and if they're really lucky a several million large postseason viewing audience. lotta pressure on those guys.

[frankbmd]

Balk talk has been in the true spirit of the B thread, but I have another question related to the base umpires.

I thought I knew the rules about fair and foul balls, but during a recent Brewers game, I became confused.

In the infield if a base umpire (1st or 3rd) deems that a ball in the infield passes over first or third base, it is deemed fair regardless of where it lands (?), according to the broadcast and the umpires in the game. Why then is a slicing line drive down the right field line that clearly passes first base in fair territory and then slices foul considered a foul ball. Deep in the corners if the ball lands in foul territory it is foul.

Questions

1. When or where does the over the base rule for the infield stop being applied?

2. or in other words how far beyond the bases does the over or inside the base rule no longer apply?

3. and finally does anyone else remember the kissing Bandit, Morganna? Her Bs qualify for this thread.

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Balk talk has been in the true spirit of the B thread, but I have another question related to the base umpires.

I thought I knew the rules about fair and foul balls, but during a recent Brewers game, I became confused.

In the infield if a base umpire (1st or 3rd) deems that a ball in the infield passes over first or third base, it is deemed fair regardless of where it lands (?), according to the broadcast and the umpires in the game. Why then is a slicing line drive down the right field line that clearly passes first base in fair territory and then slices foul considered a foul ball. Deep in the corners if the ball lands in foul territory it is foul.

Questions

1. When or where does the over the base rule for the infield stop being applied?

2. or in other words how far beyond the bases does the over or inside the base rule no longer apply?

3. and finally does anyone else remember the kissing Bandit, Morganna? Her Bs qualify for this thread.

Ha, the ground ball over the bag!!! I think it's gotta be one of the single most impossible calls to make accurately, and is probably just a fair guess (see also- check swings) most of the time. I think the ground ball is different because it at least established itself in fair play when it hit the ground, thus the difference as to its being ruled fair by simply passing over the bag. The line drive didn't establish itself in fair play at any point, until it hits the ground in the outfield.. hence looking to see if the chalk pops up. I'm not saying this makes sense, but think that's the general thought behind it... it's similar to "ball crossing plain" versus dragging feet in back of endzone while "establishing possession" in football. The runner who only need to cross the plain has already established possession, while the dude catching ball has to establish possession as well as being in bounds.

To your questions 1 and 2... "over or inside the base" no longer applies once a ball on the fly goes further than the bases.. but applies for all balls that land/hit ground prior to the base.

Wasn't her name Topsy Turvey? or was that someone else??

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by itjclarke

Ha, the ground ball over the bag!!! I think it's gotta be one of the single most impossible calls to make accurately, and is probably just a fair guess (see also- check swings) most of the time. I think the ground ball is different because it at least established itself in fair play when it hit the ground, thus the difference as to its being ruled fair by simply passing over the bag. The line drive didn't establish itself in fair play at any point, until it hits the ground in the outfield.. hence looking to see if the chalk pops up. I'm not saying this makes sense, but think that's the general thought behind it... it's similar to "ball crossing plain" versus dragging feet in back of endzone while "establishing possession" in football. The runner who only need to cross the plain has already established possession, while the dude catching ball has to establish possession as well as being in bounds.

Wasn't her name Topsy Turvey? or was that someone else??

The referenced play I believe was a low line drive that was ruled to have passed over third base and thus called fair by the third base umpire. I think the ball landed in foul territory. I could be wrong as I was watching Net54 at the same time.

On another play the "vicinity" rule at second base was taken to the extreme when the thirdbaseman fielded a grounder and flipped the ball to the secondbaseman. The problem however was that the shortstop was on the bag and the secondbaseman was ten feet off the bag. The relay to first was late, but the runner at second was called out. The umpire's call was upheld.

The more I know, the more I don't understand.

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

On another play the "vicinity" rule at second base was taken to the extreme when the thirdbaseman fielded a grounder and flipped the ball to the secondbaseman. The problem however was that the shortstop was on the bag and the secondbaseman was ten feet off the bag. The relay to first was late, but the runner at second was called out. The umpire's call was upheld.

The more I know, the more I don't understand.

Woah man.. that "vicinity" play is going to get blown to pieces if/when replay becomes for extensive. That's always just been an understood/unwritten oversight that he umps are willing to offer, so as to prevent middle infielders from un-needed collisions and ACL tears... at least that's how I see it. If they ever open that up to replay, I don't see how they'd ever be able to allow those calls anymore. Another one is the first baseman cheating by pulling his bag foot a split second before the ball arrives, in hopes of selling the ump that he has the ball. Replay would blow those up too.

[triwak]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

The referenced play I believe was a low line drive that was ruled to have passed over third base and thus called fair by the third base umpire. I think the ball landed in foul territory. I could be wrong as I was watching Net54 at the same time.

No, if the ump called the ball fair, he must have ruled that the ball was actually a "ground ball," NOT a line drive. Any fly ball that lands in foul territory (the first time it touches the ground) is "foul." But a ground ball that first touches the ground in fair territory and then passes inside of, or over any part of the 1st or 3rd base bag, is deemed "fair."

[Paul S]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

I thought I knew the rules about fair and foul balls, but during a recent Brewers game, I became confused.

In the infield if a base umpire (1st or 3rd) deems that a ball in the infield passes over first or third base, it is deemed fair regardless of where it lands (?), according to the broadcast and the umpires in the game. Why then is a slicing line drive down the right field line that clearly passes first base in fair territory and then slices foul considered a foul ball. Deep in the corners if the ball lands in foul territory it is foul.

Questions

1. When or where does the over the base rule for the infield stop being applied?

2. or in other words how far beyond the bases does the over or inside the base rule no longer apply?

3. and finally does anyone else remember the kissing Bandit, Morganna? Her Bs qualify for this thread.

You nailed it, Frank, on the 'over the base' fair/foul topic. This is a big issue with me. The one person who has the best vantage point is really the batter. In the batters' box he/she has the best perspective: more so than the catcher and the ump(s). I once bashed what would have been a game winning ball -- adult league -- batting bi-dextrously, right over third base bag that then went into foul territory. I argued the call, and everybody told me I was wrong and that that wasn't the rule.

And yes, I remember Morganna. She had Bs. Those were times when you wouldn't get tossed into the stadium brig for running onto the field. Athough, I think 'streakers' were detained.

Bashedly, Bebe