Simply Amazing - What Was This Guy Thinking?

[Tom Hufford]

This isn't one of those examples from the 1940s, where collectors just seemed to want the signature, and could care less about what it had been written on.

This is recent - and he thinks someone would be interested in the left-overs!

Go figure!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAUL-KRICHEL...item2a263b87dc

[mighty bombjack]

That is bizarre and sad.

[David Atkatz]

You'd think no one could outdo PSA's stupidity in putting a sticker on that letter, but you'd be wrong.

[prewarsports]

Not only that, but at least make a nice 3X5 or something, my 3 year old daughter could have done a better job with those plastic safety scissors!

Rhys

[39special]

I don't understand why someone would ruin a letter like that.What a waste!

[travrosty]

just when i had thought i had seen it all, i see this.

when i saw muhammad ali's yellowed cut fingernail clippings (or was it toenail) being offered on ebay for a tidy sum, i had thought i had seen it all, but nope!

[thecatspajamas]

I just hope he puts a piece of scotch tape over the cut when he puts it in his album to protect it!

[Leon]

I have a few things with those kinds of stickers. There should be a law against them . And of course removing that signature should be illegal too !! That is crazy.

[jgmp123]

assume PSA certified before he cut out the signature...right???? surely they wouldn't certify a partial letter..right???

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by jgmp123

assume PSA certified before he cut out the signature...right???? surely they wouldn't certify a partial letter..right???

James, they must have certified the letter in whole w/ the signature.
Since once the signature was missing, it was juts a typed letter and that's a service they don't provide.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Leon

I have a few things with those kinds of stickers. There should be a law against them . And of course removing that signature should be illegal too !! That is crazy.

+1

When I first read the ebay description, I thought maybe the seller was playing a bizarre joke on us. It's hard to believe that he couldn't anticipate how stupid other collectors would think his actions were.

[JimStinson]

As strange as strange goes for sure.

BUT I once sold Johnny Grabowski's LAST Yankee contract (1929) , Grabowski is one of the all time toughies from the 1927 team, He died in 1946. It was an historically significant contract and found out later the buyer was going to CUT the signature out for a display. (hope he's not reading this). I thought he was joking.....HE WAS NOT JOKING. Another collector came to the rescue and worked out a trade plus cash for his Grabowski cut in exchange for the intact 1929 Contract
________________________
stinsonsports.com

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by JimStinson

As strange as strange goes for sure.

BUT I once sold Johnny Grabowski's LAST Yankee contract (1929) , Grabowski is one of the all time toughies from the 1927 team, He died in 1946. It was an historically significant contract and found out later the buyer was going to CUT the signature out for a display. (hope he's not reading this). I thought he was joking.....HE WAS NOT JOKING. Another collector came to the rescue and worked out a trade plus cash for his Grabowski cut in exchange for the intact 1929 Contract
________________________
stinsonsports.com

Every time I see a cut of a famous person, I wonder what the surrounding document looked like. I have a Walter Johnson letter with a beautiful signature, and the accompanying envelope, also signed. It's tempting to sell the envelope, but it's the only way of dating the letter. Given all the cuts out there, I guess I'm lucky the envelope is still intact.

[JimStinson]

Coincidence you'd mention Walter Johnson, I just bought a collection and there was a matted Johnson signature in the group. I had my doubts , and was going to take a PASS on the W.J. , we took the piece apart and there intact was a Washington team page with multiple signatures ALL GOOD that proved the validity of the Walter Johnson. Luckily the original collector had left the page intact
______________________
stinsonsports.com

[JimStinson]

IMHO your envelope would stand alone
_______________________
stinsonsports.com

[chaddurbin]

the full PSA loa does NOT accompany the sticker so i'll pass

[scooter729]

That is insane! Here's the link to the original listing with the full letter intact!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAUL-KRICHEL...p2047675.l2557

[Exhibitman]

People on 'ludes should not sell sports memorabilia

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by scooter729

That is insane! Here's the link to the original listing with the full letter intact!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAUL-KRICHEL...p2047675.l2557

Shameful and shortsighted. The cut will probably end up in one of those self-created 1 of 1 trading cards.

[Ritz]

I am the guy you've been praising throughout this thread, lol. My name is "Ritz" and there are a very small few of you that know me from doing business together (although I won't name you, since I'd hate to demonize you from our peers here, lol). Others know me from my eBay handle - AmericanCollectible - as I've made many purchases from sellers there over the years.

Many of you know me, even though you don't. I've been a pricing contributor to Beckett since day 1 in 1984, and have been featured numerous times in periodicals for my collections. I am, of course, primarily a collector - but I do enjoy flipping a piece or 2, when I purchase entire collections. This is my hobby, not my life. My life is, well, complicated (in a wonderful way, of course). I have over 1.2 million cards - and no, 1.1 million are NOT 1970's-1990's chum lol). Among my most prized sports collectibles are a 5-card proof strip of the 1909 T206 Honus Wagner (with Cy Young and Mordecai Brown on the strip as well) a 16 card-run of 1887 Allen & Ginter proofs, including the Charles Comiskey, and a certain 1951 New York Yankees yearbook (the only year DiMaggio and Mantle were teammates and listed together in one yearbook)...

This is the fabled yearbook some folks have heard rumors about at the conventions every so often. Currently autographed by over 200 Qualified Yankees, witnessed by me - in person (including the obvious: Joe DiMaggio - on 3 seperate occasions, Mickey Mantle - twice, Billy Martin, and many more Hall of Famers and important hard-to-obtain Yanks) as well as over 100 additional PSA, JSA, and Beckett autograph cuts that I've deemed important enough to include in the book...and this is where the Paul Krichell signature has found a new home.

As a traditionalist, myself, I fully understand the ire some folks here have expressed regarding the signature extraction. While I bear no ill will to those that have vented, I will address the more colorful comments - after all, why not? Lol. I can also offer that I very, very rarely purchase a full document for the sole purpose of obtaining the signature. Paul Krichell, is indeed a rare one - but not terribly expensive. In fact, if clicked on my eBay listing, you can readily see the original listing link from last month - in which I purchased the document for a whopping $105 (yes, sarcasm intended). If anyone was indeed that taken with it, you were free to outbid me. Now, on to the important part - I have seen a few Krichells come up for sale in the last 20 years - and all of them - ALL OF THEM - had far more historical signifiance than this. In fact, the document had 5 unique bidders on the original item. 5 - so yeah, not alot of interest there in a mid-interim age and dirt-damaged office memo regarding a never-was semi-pro minor leaguer. Think about that vs what abominations Topps, Upper Deck and the other pros have done with ACUALLY IMPORTANT ITEMS that have actual interest.

Anyhoo, here's some fun...

Originally Posted by Tom Hufford

This isn't one of those examples from the 1940s, where collectors just seemed to want the signature, and could care less about what it had been written on.

As explained above, of course I cared. That's why I made the cut. There's a whole subculture out there regarding people who REALLY don't care about what they destroy. I'm gonna make the leap and say that stuff might leave you in a fugue state, lol.

Originally Posted by Tom Hufford

This is recent - and he thinks someone would be interested in the left-overs!



http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAUL-KRICHEL...item2a263b87dc

Many leftovers. Big marketplace. Ya might wanna think outside your own box. $100 letter - that's all it be, my friend. No historical signifiance - or you'd a'bought it intact, right?

Originally Posted by mighty bombjack

That is bizarre and sad.

Now imagine how bizarre chopping up all those Ruth, Gehrig and Cobbs bats as Topps is fond of doing, and sticking the leftover wood chips on baseball cards. Hmmmmm...

Originally Posted by prewarsports

Not only that, but at least make a nice 3X5 or something, my 3 year old daughter could have done a better job with those plastic safety scissors!

Rhys

I do my best, my friend. As I've done to quite a few items I've purchased from you. And hey, gimme some credit, I do use a very nice set of steel graphite laser scissors.

Originally Posted by 39special

I don't understand why someone would ruin a letter like that.What a waste!

Indeed. I think you should have bought it yourself last month, and promptly donated it to Cooperstown. They're in the market for exactly this kind of document.

Originally Posted by travrosty

just when i had thought i had seen it all, i see this.

when i saw muhammad ali's yellowed cut fingernail clippings (or was it toenail) being offered on ebay for a tidy sum, i had thought i had seen it all, but nope!

You should have seen the french toast with the picture of the Virgin Mary on it - might have been a religious experience for ya!

Originally Posted by thecatspajamas

I just hope he puts a piece of scotch tape over the cut when he puts it in his album to protect it!

I use Scotch double-sided (non-acidic) 1/2" temporary, if you must know.

Originally Posted by Leon

I have a few things with those kinds of stickers. There should be a law against them . And of course removing that signature should be illegal too !! That is crazy.

If I am to be prosecuted, be it in the name of the love baseball - but more specifically, a museum-worthy Yankee Yearbook (and yes, most recently Grey Flannel has upped their estimate on what the minimum bid might be - and no, it's not for sale).

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

James, they must have certified the letter in whole w/ the signature.
Since once the signature was missing, it was juts a typed letter and that's a service they don't provide.

Indeed. And I do have the PSA LOA that it came with. I missed that in my listing, which I'll update.

Originally Posted by Runscott

+1

When I first read the ebay description, I thought maybe the seller was playing a bizarre joke on us. It's hard to believe that he couldn't anticipate how stupid other collectors would think his actions were.

Actually, I really didn't. Jim, right below you here, will probably tell you that his pages are quite often on eBay with signatures wfrom autograph books from the 20's through the 70's. Collectors simply buy the pages, take the signatures they want, and then flip what's left. Very, very common. Right Jim...

Originally Posted by JimStinson

As strange as strange goes for sure.

BUT I once sold Johnny Grabowski's LAST Yankee contract (1929) , Grabowski is one of the all time toughies from the 1927 team, He died in 1946. It was an historically significant contract and found out later the buyer was going to CUT the signature out for a display. (hope he's not reading this). I thought he was joking.....HE WAS NOT JOKING. Another collector came to the rescue and worked out a trade plus cash for his Grabowski cut in exchange for the intact 1929 Contract
________________________
stinsonsports.com

OK, Jim - the Grabowski story is just...well, I'm not here to pass judgement, lol.

Originally Posted by Runscott

Every time I see a cut of a famous person, I wonder what the surrounding document looked like. I have a Walter Johnson letter with a beautiful signature, and the accompanying envelope, also signed. It's tempting to sell the envelope, but it's the only way of dating the letter. Given all the cuts out there, I guess I'm lucky the envelope is still intact.

Its a double edged sword. I've seen gorgeous displays with nothing buts cuts, and maybe a centerpiece picture. But, for practical reasons, the displays can't accommodate full items - and some autographs are either impossible, or virtually impossible to find in cut form. I don't personally like the big displays (my Yearbook is simply Yearbook size), but I can see both sides of the argument.

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

the full PSA loa does NOT accompany the sticker so i'll pass

Again, forgot to list the LOA as included. I'll make the adjustment in the listing.

Originally Posted by scooter729

That is insane! Here's the link to the original listing with the full letter intact!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAUL-KRICHEL...p2047675.l2557

Congratulations, you found the link I listed in the current listing. Good detective work, or... well anyway....

First post, I know, I know. I did actually register here last March, when I found the site. I troll from time to time - but I'd love to be more active in the community. Just so you folks don't thing I'm blowing smoke up...I'll take some pics of some fun stuff including the Yearbook - and post em in this thread tomorrow. I'll even take one of the Krichell's new home.

And a'let the sparks fly....

[David Atkatz]

Great post, Ritz! I guess you put us all in our rightful place.
But here's a fact. You are an idiot. (And what you once owned, or presently own, has absolutely nothing to do with it.)

[Ritz]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Great post, Ritz! I guess you put us all in our rightful place.
But here's a fact. You are an idiot. (And what you once owned, or presently own, has absolutely nothing to do with it.)

Wasn't looking to put anyone anywhere. LOL, but I do try to show some class. Apparently, you might have missed that class in college...oh, wait...

[David Atkatz]

Yeah. You show quite a bit of class.

[chaddurbin]

i actually agree with the owner of the piece. i'll save my outrage for another piece with more historical significance.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Ritz

- so yeah, not alot of interest there in a mid-interim age and dirt-damaged office memo regarding a never-was semi-pro minor leaguer.

I applaud you for keeping your cool in your responses; however, your comment above doesn't really go very well with the following hype from your ebay description. The fact that he only had limited playing time over two years (1911,12) would make any complete document of historical value. But maybe there are Krichell-signed autographs all over the place.

"Paul Bernard Krichell (December 19, 1882 – June 4, 1957) was a Major League Baseball catcher, best known for being the head scout for the New York Yankees for 37 years until his death. Krichell's talent evaluations and signings played a key role in building up the Yankees' run of success from the Murderers' Row teams of the 1920s to the 1950s teams led by Casey Stengel."

[Ritz]

Originally Posted by Runscott

I applaud you for keeping your cool in your responses; however, your comment above doesn't really go very well with the following hype from your ebay description. The fact that he only had limited playing time over two years (1911,12) would make any complete document of historical value. But maybe there are Krichell-signed autographs all over the place.

"Paul Bernard Krichell (December 19, 1882 – June 4, 1957) was a Major League Baseball catcher, best known for being the head scout for the New York Yankees for 37 years until his death. Krichell's talent evaluations and signings played a key role in building up the Yankees' run of success from the Murderers' Row teams of the 1920s to the 1950s teams led by Casey Stengel."

Ah, I see the misunderstanding here. In your quote above, I was actually referring to the context of the letter, not Krichell himself. Krichell himself, was indeed significant. But this letter was very low on the totem-pole of items one can find with his John Hancock on it (or without it, as the case may be lol). He's a definite handful of times a year eBay popper-upper. (And thanks! .. Always risky wading into new waters! )

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Ritz

Ah, I see the misunderstanding here. In your quote above, I was actually referring to the context of the letter, not Krichell himself. Krichell himself, was indeed significant. But this letter was very low on the totem-pole of items one can find with his John Hancock on it (or without it, as the case may be lol). He's a definite handful of times a year eBay popper-upper. (And thanks! .. Always risky wading into new waters! )

Thanks for coming on the board Ritz. I know some of the guys at Beckett very well and we are good hobby friends. Even friends on the outside somewhat. (playing cards and stuff) I still don't care for cutting documents up but it's your stuff so you can do as you please. (of course) Happy collecting and thanks for joining in the reindeer games. Don't be a stranger. The card side can always use more fodder too.

[Runscott]

How's this for a coincidence...

Today I decided to catalog all of my photographs, and found one of my favorites - a framed photo of the 1913 Kansas City Blues (for the younger generation, I will describe it as a 'Type I'). It has a guy i.d'd as 'Kritchell', who is of course your man, 'Paul Krichell'. 2nd row from top, far left.

[David Atkatz]

That's an OK picture, Scott. But if you want to see something really nice, cut out Kritchell's head, and paste it into Ritz' 1951 yearbook, right next to the Kritchell signature. Then you'd really have something!

(And you could sell the mutilated photo on ebay for a few bucks, too!)

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

That's an OK picture, Scott. But if you want to see something really nice, cut out Kritchell's head, and paste it into Ritz' 1951 yearbook, right next to the Kritchell signature. Then you'd really have something!

(And you could sell the mutilated photo on ebay for a few bucks, too!)

I must confess - My complaints about this were all out of jealousy. I have already cut out ALL of the individual players and pasted them each on index cards - I am cutting out signatures from documents and pasting alongside them as I find them. Kritchell is a toughie Now I'm going to have to beg Ritz for his.

Be right back - not quite through cutting up my set of 1905 Sporting Life composites.

[David Atkatz]

Well, if you really need a signature, I suppose I can clip the one from this letter:

[Wymers Auction]

Ritz I will bet you never expected this much entertainment out of a hundred dollar letter!

[David Atkatz]

None of us did.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Wymers Auction

Ritz I will bet you never expected this much entertainment out of a hundred dollar letter!

Next he will post his cut up Wagner strip. I mean it's a strip of cards so WAS made to be cut up, right?

[JimStinson]

Welcome Aboard quite a fun post that one !

Although in your first post you are only allowed to attempt to piss off two people, after that you can tick off however many you would like...also

You FAR exceeded your "lol" quota for a first time post, the moderator should have caught that but the maximum number of "lol"'s allowed in a first time post is 4. I think you came in somewhere around 15

The last time I saw someone laughing out loud that much they were pinning a coat with no sleeves on him. Never the less its good to have you aboard.
________________________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Ritz

I am the guy you've been praising throughout this thread, lol. My name is "Ritz" and there are a very small few of you that know me from doing business together (although I won't name you, since I'd hate to demonize you from our peers here, lol). Others know me from my eBay handle - AmericanCollectible - as I've made many purchases from sellers there over the years.

Many of you know me, even though you don't. I've been a pricing contributor to Beckett since day 1 in 1984, and have been featured numerous times in periodicals for my collections. I am, of course, primarily a collector - but I do enjoy flipping a piece or 2, when I purchase entire collections. This is my hobby, not my life. My life is, well, complicated (in a wonderful way, of course). I have over 1.2 million cards - and no, 1.1 million are NOT 1970's-1990's chum lol). Among my most prized sports collectibles are a 5-card proof strip of the 1909 T206 Honus Wagner (with Cy Young and Mordecai Brown on the strip as well) a 16 card-run of 1887 Allen & Ginter proofs, including the Charles Comiskey, and a certain 1951 New York Yankees yearbook (the only year DiMaggio and Mantle were teammates and listed together in one yearbook)...

This is the fabled yearbook some folks have heard rumors about at the conventions every so often. Currently autographed by over 200 Qualified Yankees, witnessed by me - in person (including the obvious: Joe DiMaggio - on 3 seperate occasions, Mickey Mantle - twice, Billy Martin, and many more Hall of Famers and important hard-to-obtain Yanks) as well as over 100 additional PSA, JSA, and Beckett autograph cuts that I've deemed important enough to include in the book...and this is where the Paul Krichell signature has found a new home.

As a traditionalist, myself, I fully understand the ire some folks here have expressed regarding the signature extraction. While I bear no ill will to those that have vented, I will address the more colorful comments - after all, why not? Lol. I can also offer that I very, very rarely purchase a full document for the sole purpose of obtaining the signature. Paul Krichell, is indeed a rare one - but not terribly expensive. In fact, if clicked on my eBay listing, you can readily see the original listing link from last month - in which I purchased the document for a whopping $105 (yes, sarcasm intended). If anyone was indeed that taken with it, you were free to outbid me. Now, on to the important part - I have seen a few Krichells come up for sale in the last 20 years - and all of them - ALL OF THEM - had far more historical signifiance than this. In fact, the document had 5 unique bidders on the original item. 5 - so yeah, not alot of interest there in a mid-interim age and dirt-damaged office memo regarding a never-was semi-pro minor leaguer. Think about that vs what abominations Topps, Upper Deck and the other pros have done with ACUALLY IMPORTANT ITEMS that have actual interest.

Anyhoo, here's some fun...




As explained above, of course I cared. That's why I made the cut. There's a whole subculture out there regarding people who REALLY don't care about what they destroy. I'm gonna make the leap and say that stuff might leave you in a fugue state, lol.



Many leftovers. Big marketplace. Ya might wanna think outside your own box. $100 letter - that's all it be, my friend. No historical signifiance - or you'd a'bought it intact, right?



Now imagine how bizarre chopping up all those Ruth, Gehrig and Cobbs bats as Topps is fond of doing, and sticking the leftover wood chips on baseball cards. Hmmmmm...



I do my best, my friend. As I've done to quite a few items I've purchased from you. And hey, gimme some credit, I do use a very nice set of steel graphite laser scissors.



Indeed. I think you should have bought it yourself last month, and promptly donated it to Cooperstown. They're in the market for exactly this kind of document.



You should have seen the french toast with the picture of the Virgin Mary on it - might have been a religious experience for ya!



I use Scotch double-sided (non-acidic) 1/2" temporary, if you must know.



If I am to be prosecuted, be it in the name of the love baseball - but more specifically, a museum-worthy Yankee Yearbook (and yes, most recently Grey Flannel has upped their estimate on what the minimum bid might be - and no, it's not for sale).



Indeed. And I do have the PSA LOA that it came with. I missed that in my listing, which I'll update.



Actually, I really didn't. Jim, right below you here, will probably tell you that his pages are quite often on eBay with signatures wfrom autograph books from the 20's through the 70's. Collectors simply buy the pages, take the signatures they want, and then flip what's left. Very, very common. Right Jim...



OK, Jim - the Grabowski story is just...well, I'm not here to pass judgement, lol.



Its a double edged sword. I've seen gorgeous displays with nothing buts cuts, and maybe a centerpiece picture. But, for practical reasons, the displays can't accommodate full items - and some autographs are either impossible, or virtually impossible to find in cut form. I don't personally like the big displays (my Yearbook is simply Yearbook size), but I can see both sides of the argument.



Again, forgot to list the LOA as included. I'll make the adjustment in the listing.



Congratulations, you found the link I listed in the current listing. Good detective work, or... well anyway....

First post, I know, I know. I did actually register here last March, when I found the site. I troll from time to time - but I'd love to be more active in the community. Just so you folks don't thing I'm blowing smoke up...I'll take some pics of some fun stuff including the Yearbook - and post em in this thread tomorrow. I'll even take one of the Krichell's new home.

And a'let the sparks fly....

AWESOME Ritz, Let it be baby!!!! Thanks for answering everyone and your humor is appreciated. I would never buy anything cut, for what it's worth...very stupid IMHO. Who needs it?

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Great post, Ritz! I guess you put us all in our rightful place.
But here's a fact. You are an idiot. (And what you once owned, or presently own, has absolutely nothing to do with it.)

LOL, come on David!!!!!!

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Leon

Next he will post his cut up Wagner strip. I mean it's a strip of cards so WAS made to be cut up, right?

LOL It's the next PSA 9 Wagner from a "Great Estate Find"....


CUT THE STRIP, CUT THE STRIP, CUT THE STRIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by JimStinson

Welcome Aboard quite a fun post that one !

Although in your first post you are only allowed to attempt to piss off two people, after that you can tick off however many you would like...also

You FAR exceeded your "lol" quota for a first time post, the moderator should have caught that but the maximum number of "lol"'s allowed in a first time post is 4. I think you came in somewhere around 15

The last time I saw someone laughing out loud that much they were pinning a coat with no sleeves on him. Never the less its good to have you aboard.
________________________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

LOLOLOLOLOLOL...That's 4 in a row!!!!Flag on the play. Fudd gets a 15 yard penalty for too many LOL's...When in doubt, use the smiliy's

[CW]

Among my most prized sports collectibles are a 5-card proof strip of the 1909 T206 Honus Wagner (with Cy Young and Mordecai Brown on the strip as well)

Just so you folks don't thing I'm blowing smoke up...I'll take some pics of some fun stuff including the Yearbook - and post em in this thread tomorrow.

A 5-card proof strip or THE 5-card proof strip?? That's an amazing piece. Please post some pictures when you get a chance! Interesting...

[jgmp123]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

LOLOLOLOLOLOL...That's 4 in a row!!!!Flag on the play. Fudd gets a 15 yard penalty for too many LOL's...When in doubt, use the smiliy's

Lol

[JimStinson]

Might be my most favorite thread of all time...lol
Opps forgot to mention that RFLOL is only allowed one per thread...see moderator for changes
________________________________________
jim@stinsonsports.com