1904 Allegheny Game Cards

[pgellis]

I was searching the site last evening regarding all the Luther "Dummy" Taylor issues that are known and I came across a couple of threads regarding the 1904 Allegheny Game Cards where there is a Dummy Taylor card from that set.

After reading several threads from the site's archives I found it rather fascinating about this set. There is only 1 known set out there and thus, only 1 copy known for the 112 different cards that make up the set. Truly a very rare issue obviously.

So, let's see your Allegheny Game Cards if you have any. I would also be quite interesting in hearing how you acquired your card/cards? Was it on eBay, at the National, major auction house, or some other interesting find? How hard are they to find?

Also, if anyone on here has the Dummy Taylor card or know who does, please PM with contact info if they want to be known, I would love to ask them a few questions about the card offline.

Thanks,
Phil

[Leon]

As I remember it there was the one full set and it got sold once or twice. I think TIK Sr. ended up with it (or most of it) and sold singles for quite a while. That is where I got this one. .....I think B and L sold the Matty for 9k-10k some time back.....neat type cards...

[ChiefBenderForever]

How sweet would it be to come across a full deck of those laying around somewhere ?

[53Browns]

Leon, is there anything you don't have?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by 53Browns

Leon, is there anything you don't have?

Yes . I still need a D351 and D355....then, except for a few real easy ones I can get anytime, I will be complete on my ACC 20th century, pre-1950 type set. I still need a bunch of color variations and backs.....it is truly never ending, which makes it fun too.

BTW, being quite focused, and staying that way, has helped a lot!!

[asphaltman]

Originally Posted by 53Browns

Leon, is there anything you don't have?

Surely there are more than a few things Leon doesn't have. He may need to pony up more though than he would for the D351 or D355

[Leon]

Originally Posted by asphaltman

Surely there are more than a few things Leon doesn't have. He may need to pony up more though than he would for the D351 or D355

Dave- where did you find a picture of my spouse? Actually, my wife is great but is much better looking . (to me)

[terjung]

Originally Posted by Leon

Dave- where did you find a picture of my spouse? Actually, my wife is great but is much better looking . (to me)

...spoken like a man who knows where his bread is buttered.

[drc]

She's a foreign issue.

[asphaltman]

Originally Posted by drc

She's a foreign issue.

So is a Lamborghini.

[joeadcock]

Found an american issue.

[pgellis]

Thanks guys for derailing this post almost immediately after it got started. I was interested in hearing some stories and seeing some pictures about an interesting issue and this happens.

What are we getting paid per post around here?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by pgellis

Thanks guys for derailing this post almost immediately after it got started. I was interested in hearing some stories and seeing some pictures about an interesting issue and this happens.

What are we getting paid per post around here?

Hey, at least I posted one and gave some insight? Sorry for derailing the thread. I think the guys were just having some fun.

Anyone else with some Allegheny cards? They are neat and I do like them. I think I have owned about 3-4 over the years. The prices seem to have fallen on them lately, at least for commons. Another interesting tidbit. A lot of them, if not most, have a tiny pen mark (dot) on the back, near the top of the card. It is literally one dot. You can see it on the one I posted. Many times a grading company will miss that and not count off for it the way they should. That is the reason, not the red on front which is normal for them as they were stacked and had some ink transfer, for the lower grade. regards

[barrysloate]

I've had a few over the years, including (I think) the Roger Bresnahan, which I believe is his rookie card, as are most in the set.

[DanP]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I've had a few over the years, including (I think) the Roger Bresnahan, which I believe is his rookie card, as are most in the set.

I'm still kicking myself for missing his RC in your auction a few years back! I also think it is Mordecai Brown's RC. I'm hoping they get re-sold at auction in the next 20 years!!

Dan

[barrysloate]

Dan- I just checked and it was a Bresnahan in a GAI 8 holder (no wisecracks please). It sold in 2008 for $4821. What would it be worth today?

[DanP]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Dan- I just checked and it was a Bresnahan in a GAI 8 holder (no wisecracks please). It sold in 2008 for $4821. What would it be worth today?

If it was being sold in FL or NV about 70% less, the rest of the country about 30% less. Ahh....wrong investment class!!

Actually I'm not convinced it would sell for much more today. I'd love to find out!! Dan

[Baseball Rarities]

Originally Posted by pgellis

Thanks guys for derailing this post almost immediately after it got started. I was interested in hearing some stories and seeing some pictures about an interesting issue and this happens.

What are we getting paid per post around here?

Phil, the set sold in the 1991 Sotheby's Copeland sale for $26,400. I am not 100% sure, but I think that Lipset is the one who orginally found the set and sold it to Copeland. I recall seeing some sort of blurb about it in his Old Judge newsletter.

I do not remember who bought the set, but it was kept together and then consigned to The Best of Yesterday, who sold it at their live auction at the 1995 National Convention in St. Louis. From what I remember, it went for quite a bit less than in the Copeland sale - $10,000 or so out the door.

It was then broken up (Terry Knouse?) and the cards were scattered througout the hobby. Each card is still one of a kind.

I am sure that I butchered the story somewhere along the line, so please so not hesitate to correct me.

[barrysloate]

10K for the whole set is highway robbery. The Wagner alone (is there a Wagner, or is Matty the best card?) would be worth that.

[pgellis]

Thanks guys for getting us back on track this morning. I love hearing the input from you guys. This is really quite a unique and fascinating set in my mind. Barry's question leads to another.

Does anyone know if there is a checklist out there for this set?

[Baseball Rarities]

I am sure that the Standard Catalog has a complete checklist.

[paul]

I never tire of posting this one.

[paul]

That was aweful small. Let me try again.

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

10K for the whole set is highway robbery. The Wagner alone (is there a Wagner, or is Matty the best card?) would be worth that.

Barry Good call.
The Matty is a PSA-6
and sold via REA in May of 08 for $10,575
and sold again in May '09 via Goodwin at $8,283

[triwak]

Love that Selee card, Paul! Drool....

[uffda51]

I bought a couple commons from Clay Hill at Sportscards+ at the National in about 2000. Don't have them any more.

[ksfarmboy]

Found this checklist. Has anybody seen one of the team cards? I never knew there was that many different ones let alone team cards. Very interesting issue.

http://www.cards-baseball.com/baseba...y-card-company

[rhettyeakley]

The "Team" cards are not images of the actual team--that would have been cool though! They are generic with just the name of the team on the front. When they initially sold these were much cheaper than the actual player cards.
-Rhett

[Andy Baran]

I owned the Alleghany Brown card for a number of years. Originally bought it from Terry Knouse, and eventually sold it to Hal Lewis when I liquidated my baseball card collection. Not sure what ever happened to it.

[ls7plus]

I think that whoever bought the Matty for $8283 from Goodwin will be very happy with its value appreciation if they hold it for a decade or so. Incredibly rare and significant (it is Matty, after all) is just going to be a great combo over time!

Larry

[joeadcock]

Hello Phil

Here is one. Got this one from Leon.

Sorry about derailing your thread before.

Frank

[pgellis]

No problem Frank. I'm glad we got back on track. A very interesting and intriguing set.

Here's a question. I see that your card is hand cut. I thought I read somewhere that they believe this entire set was hand cut. If so, how does it get a numerical grade? I thought any hand cut card would only get an "A" authentic grade?

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by pgellis

Here's a question. I see that your card is hand cut. I thought I read somewhere that they believe this entire set was hand cut. If so, how does it get a numerical grade? I thought any hand cut card would only get an "A" authentic grade?

Phil there are a ton of card issues that PSA & SGC grade numerically.
Here's 1 that happens to be sitting on my desk as an example
though I'd rather it be an Allegheny

[joeadcock]

Phil

Good question. I have never understood that. I have seen PSA sometimes use the term "trimmed" on the header. I'm not sure what criteria they are using in calling a card Authentic vs numerical grade. SGC uses Authentic designation for trimmed cards.

I'm sure there are opinions regarding this on the board.

Frank

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by joeadcock

Phil

Good question. I have never understood that. I have seen PSA sometimes use the term "trimmed" on the header. I'm not sure what criteria they are using in calling a card Authentic vs numerical grade. SGC uses Authentic designation for trimmed cards.


Frank

Frank as stated in my earlier post, both PSA & SGC numerically grade many issues that are hand cut

[pgellis]

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

Frank as stated in my earlier post, both PSA & SGC numerically grade many issues that are hand cut

Yes both Frank and I understand that they do grade hand cut cards, I think we both are questioning why they give a numeric grade to hand cut cards.

Are they grading the persons skills in using scissors?

And what are the standards they use? How can you establish a standard size, and then correlate that to a number grade when there can be so many variations on a hand cut card?

Again, we both understand that they do give numerical grades to hand cut cards, we are just questioning how, and why, they do it?

[joeadcock]

Jay
I have many other cards graded that are hand cut. I just did not know(simply out of curiosity) why they decided to grade some hand cut cards and not others.
Also, I have received some T206 cards come back as not graded because trimmed but then have seen that they have graded other cards that are trimmed. (says trimmed on the header label).

[joeadcock]

Sorry Phil, must have sent my message just after you did. No repeat intended.

[Jay Wolt]

I would love some consistency as well and believe all hand cut cards
should just be slabbed as authentic. In the case of Bazooka panels or
strip cards the cards share the dotted or solid line barrier, so if you cut the first
card that has the dotted lines and show all 4 lines, it will get a numerical grade.
But in doing so the next card will be missing the border and will only receive
an authentic designation, which is kinda crazy that 2 consecutive cards will
have different criteria for grading.

[barrysloate]

I believe the criteria used for grading hand cut cuts is the size of the borders. If the handcutting is done neatly, with four relatively full borders, then the card is eligible for a numerical grade. If it's cut so close that it goes nearly into the image, it will get an AUTH grade. I feel this can get too subjective but that's the way I am told it works.

I should add I pretty much repeated what Jay just said.

[MacDice]

Does anyone know if they ever created a reprint set? Everything else seems to have been reprinted at some time. Since I will probably never get the card that I want in the set, would settle for a reprint...

[Leon]

Originally Posted by MacDice

Does anyone know if they ever created a reprint set? Everything else seems to have been reprinted at some time. Since I will probably never get the card that I want in the set, would settle for a reprint...

I have never seen a reprint of an Allegheny card but that doesn't mean they don't exist. You might check Frisch, they seem to have reprints of a lot of sets.