OT: Atlanta Braves Lose The Brave

[rp12367]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-bi...212148243.html

[kmac32]

I can do one better that the braves. When I was in high school, our school mascot was the "Chinks". Yes that's right, the Pekin Chinks and at halftime two people came out dressed as Chinese people. Everyone thought it was okay because we were calling ourselves Chinks. Name was finally changed in the early 80's to the Dragons. Local roller skating rink was fittingly called "The Chink Rink". True story!

Kmac

[Big Ben]

Originally Posted by kmac32

I can do one better that the braves. When I was in high school, our school mascot was the "Chinks". Yes that's right, the Pekin Chinks and at halftime two people came out dressed as Chinese people. Everyone thought it was okay because we were calling ourselves Chinks. Name was finally changed in the early 80's to the Dragons. Local roller skating rink was fittingly called "The Chink Rink". True story!

Kmac

Yes this is a very true story!! Being from the Peoria area, I remember when Pekin High School changed their mascot as well as the name change for the rink.

[kmac32]

Big Ben,

Where in central Illinos did you live? I was born in Pekin and lived there until 1987. Was happy when they changed the name. Pekinites are still a little short sighted on their name choices.

[Big Ben]

Originally Posted by kmac32

Big Ben,

Where in central Illinos did you live? I was born in Pekin and lived there until 1987. Was happy when they changed the name. Pekinites are still a little short sighted on their name choices.

Chillicothe. Home of the Grey Ghosts!!

[kmac32]

Used to go to party in Chille right after high school. Don't know if I would recognize the place any more.

[Big Ben]

Originally Posted by kmac32

Used to go to party in Chille right after high school. Don't know if I would recognize the place any more.

Probably not! lol If you haven't been back for a while, there are parts of Peoria that you would not recognize as well as Dunlap and Washington. Dunlap and Washington are the fastest growing towns in the area.

[kmac32]

Doesn't suprise me. My brother heads up the Riverfront park in Peoria and he said the same.

[sbfinley]

My wife is from Chillicothe. Great place.

[Section103]

That is one terrible looking patch. It should have been dropped on appearance alone.

[Leon]

Most of the comments I read on the web thought that changing the patch was stupid. I saw several Indians and others saying they were not offended at all. As a matter of fact the overwhelming majority of respondents (I read ) were pissed off about the change.

[CMIZ5290]

I agree with leon....

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

I agree with leon....

I agree with Kevin who agrees with Leon

[barrysloate]

If the change was made for political correctness, isn't the tomahawk also an image of Indian savagery? I agree this change hasn't really accomplished anything. But I also think it's a small issue.

[HRBAKER]

The offended are most likey largely those who are telling us we should be offended.

[kmac32]

Being politically correct in general is a good thing but it can go too far. The example of the Chinks was definitely derogatory and crossed the line. The Braves it think is okay but the patch was offensive. I also went to University of Illinois where the mascot was Chief Illiniwik and some were offended by his symbolism. Public outcry forced us to no longer use the chief as a symbol of the university. In this case political correctness was a little too extreme as the chief symbol was not derogatory of offensive. If we changed everything that someone found offensive, where would all the names go. Would we call all the teams the "Blank Pages"? Would be pretty boring.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I agree with Kevin who agrees with Leon

I agree with David whom agrees with Kevin whom agrees with Leon

[autograf]

I agree with Kevin Bacon who agrees with Andy who agrees with David who agrees with Kevin who agrees with Leon.......

[autograf]

My high school was Seneca REDMEN and had a lopey indian with a tomahawk behind his head throwing it. It has since been changed to the Redhawks.....famous alumni (other than me) include Wes Unseld (Washington Bullets HOFer) and Diane Sawyer.....of ABC news......

[4k6]

I just wish they'd lose the whole "Tomahawk Chant". Political correctness aside, I find it extremely annoying and refuse to watch any Braves home game because of it.

"Whooooooah Oooooooh Ooooooooh..." STFU!!!!

[mybuddyinc]

Don't really care either way ...........................







........................... just DON'T mess with Cheif Wahoo


indians-featured.jpg

[drc]

Observation rather than judgment: My experience is that the people who get really offended over a un-PC term are a vocal minority with the 'offended' minority. The press likes to report on the people who scream the loudest and are the most obnoxious from either side of the political spectrum, and who is the loudest and most obnoxious is usually is an aberration not the norm.

Two stories:

My sister is a biologist and worked on an archeological dig at a Native American reservation. The honkey archeologists from the big city would refer to the Native Americans there as Native Americans. Finally, one of the Native Americans said (politely) "We don't like to be to called Native Americans. We call ourselves Indians."

My second story is I had a new friend who is Mexican-American. Being worried about offending, I timidly asked "Do I refer to you as a Latina or Hispanic?" She replied, "I don't care."

So, what we assume a group thinks and what they think are often not, well, what we assume. Often times PC terms are our creations for them, and not something a minority group ever signed on to. As the Indians at the archeological dig would say "Native American is your term, not ours."

In general for these types of symbols, I think it's important to poll the group. If they are universally offended by it, then I wouldn't use it. If they aren't offended then they are aren't. But notice that both these instances involving looking into what the group thinks and not assuming to know what they think.

And, as I've said more than once, all you have to know about the worth and accuracy of human labels is that black people aren't black and white people aren't white. As for me, I'm sort of a pinkish tan.

[HRBAKER]

David,
I have always thought there was a certain amount of self-loathing involved in the PC movement. Could be wrong, have been before.

[drc]

I think both PCers and ultraconservatives can force their personal beliefs on others. A shared trait. Maybe it's a trait we all share. Except for me, of course.

And another saying of mine is: In a debate, proving you opponent wrong doesn't automatically prove you right. In many debates, both sides are wrong.

[HercDriver]

I'm a Fighting Illini as well (1990), and was disgusted that we lost the Chief, while places like Florida State got to keep their mascot. If it's tasteful, the mascot can teach people about our past. But to say the Illini tribe was offended was bogus...not a single Illini exists today, as they were wiped out by other tribes. Using mascots as a link to our past could teach kids who the real savage was at Custers's Last Stand...hint: he was wearing blue and gold. I always wondered how the mascot witchhunt would have went if they started with little angry Irishmen with their fists up...

Take Care,
Geno

[Chris Counts]

I've always been partial to earlier incarnations of the Braves' logo. As for political correctness, it's my belief that we've already taken it farther than it needs to go. I get so tired of people looking under every stone in search of something that offends them. All they're doing is drawing more attention to the differences between people, which is my definition of racism. The world has far more important problems that need addressing ...

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by Leon

Most of the comments I read on the web thought that changing the patch was stupid. I saw several Indians and others saying they were not offended at all. As a matter of fact the overwhelming majority of respondents (I read ) were pissed off about the change.

I liked the comments in the "Comments" about making the "scalpers" change their name too.

[Hot Springs Bathers]

The was a great segment on the Native American/sports debate a couple of years ago on HBO Real Sports.

At that time it was reported that only 8 percent of Native Americans did not like seeing schools/teams use the names and likenesses. That small group was led by former Olympian Billy Mills. It seems like the vocal minority is winning out.

Just today the University of North Dakota facing a state referendum announced that they were defying the NCAA ruling and were returning the the name "Fighting Sioux."

I have no dog in the fight, I live in a state where we revere and love to call swine on the gridiron (though I was an Arkansas Tech Wonderboy in college) and being of Irish decent I have always liked Notre Dame football.

[drc]

I went to two colleges, one with a badger as a mascot and the other without a mascot. If I'm offending someone, I'm not sure who. But, just in case, Sorry.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by drc

I went to two colleges, one with a badger as a mascot and the other without a mascot. If I'm offending someone, I'm not sure who. But, just in case, Sorry.

We were the Bulldogs, the next time I get bit by one I guess I'll know why.

As a longtime Braves fan I can tell you that I found the baseball they played in the 70's and 80's much more offensive than any screaming Brave patch!