more Baseball Forensics - Pete Hill

[Runscott]

Well, I did learn a little from the Cartwright Dag cluster-fvck thread, and thought this might be an interesting exercise for the non-forensic experts.

Here's an image from a photo I used to own (also on front page of my website), that we debated back in 2003. Some thought it might be Pete Hill, others no. Next to it is the real Pete Hill (Sorry the pic is so big, but too lazy to shrink and upload again). Original debate thread follows, but come up with your own independent opinion before peeking.



What black Giants team is this?

[novakjr]

I'd go with Yes.. It's more than likely Pete Hill. But, I'm no expert.

[sando69]

um... don't the ears reveal the answer?

[bmarlowe1]

I agree with Mark Sanders. Not Hill - ears clearly don't match.

Also he has a deep chin cleft or scar, Hill does not. Of course if it's from an injury, we would need to know the time sequence of the photos. However the ears are determinitive.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by sando69

um... don't the ears reveal the answer?

Yes, but oddly, none of us mentioned that in the original discussion. When I looked at the picture today it was pretty simple to tell - I think it's because of spending over an hour reading that AJC Dag article yesterday morning. All those little green and red marks stuck in my head

[bmarlowe1]

In 2003 it is possible that no one on the board was aware of things like ear matching. Now, quite a few board memebrs are aware of it, and they can do it, at least for clear photos, very well. I think that is has helped the hobby screen out a lot of bogus photos in recent years.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by bmarlowe1

In 2003 it is possible that no one on the board was aware of things like ear matching. Now, quite a few board memebrs are aware of it, and they can do it, at least for clear photos, very well. I think that is has helped the hobby screen out a lot of bogus photos in recent years.

Be careful now guys, someone will hang out a shingle soon and start calling himself an "ear expert" and start authenticating ears on photos.
Before you know it several companies will spring up, former government investigators will proclaim their expertise in ear identification, and major companies will open up new divisions just to authenticate players by their ears .
Someone might even open a company up called Vincent Van Gogh Ear Authentics to try and capitalize on the name like the long ago and almost forgotten J. Dimaggio Co.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by bmarlowe1

In 2003 it is possible that no one on the board was aware of things like ear matching. Now, quite a few board memebrs are aware of it, and they can do it, at least for clear photos, very well. I think that is has helped the hobby screen out a lot of bogus photos in recent years.

I think you're right. Several months ago I used ear characteristics to rule out what I thought might be an early picture of Al Spalding. Most everything else looked very good, but the ears just didn't come close. I'll see if I can find that pic, and post it here.

[thecatspajamas]

It seems odd to think about overlooking someone's ears, but almost every time one of these ID questions comes up on a photo, I spend all this time looking at the rest of the face and come to my own conclusion only to scroll down and see somebody mention the ears. Doh! Totally eluded me!

I have no idea why, but somehow the same thing happens over and over to me. Just gotta retrain myself I guess

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by thecatspajamas

It seems odd to think about overlooking someone's ears, but almost every time one of these ID questions comes up on a photo, I spend all this time looking at the rest of the face and come to my own conclusion only to scroll down and see somebody mention the ears. Doh! Totally eluded me!

I have no idea why, but somehow the same thing happens over and over to me. Just gotta retrain myself I guess

How about this guy?

[jerseygary]

Man, those ears are close! But, I think we have to now move to the advanced cheekbone comparison on him.

[sando69]

the knowses may be the solution to this puzzle...

[Scott Garner]

Close, but I would vote that the photo on the right is not Shoeless Joe.

His hairline along the temple on the right side is different, Joe's nose looks larger and his lips look a little fuller IMHO.

[thekingofclout]

All I can say is that I'm sure glad that in twenty years from now, my Ruth & Gehrig photographs are still gonna be photographs of Ruth & Gehrig!

[2dueces]

Everyone seems to be stuck on the ears on the Pete Hill photo. The one glaring difference to me is the huge dimple on his chin. Unless you can hide that somehow the two are clearly not the same person.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by 2dueces

Everyone seems to be stuck on the ears on the Pete Hill photo. The one glaring difference to me is the huge dimple on his chin. Unless you can hide that somehow the two are clearly not the same person.

I wish I still owned that photo so I could give that chin another look. From what I remember, it looked odd under magnification, as if it might have been a flaw on the photo.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Scott Garner

Close, but I would vote that the photo on the right is not Shoeless Joe.

His hairline along the temple on the right side is different, Joe's nose looks larger and his lips look a little fuller IMHO.

This picture comes from a photo of a Spartanburg, NC team. When I saw 'Spartanbug', knowing that Jackson played for Greenville, I immediately looked for him in the picture. He had a tendency to play baseball any time he had an opportunity, and Spartanburg's right next door.

Other than the possibility of Jackson being in the photo, it was a total waste of $14.95 - really beat-up and trimmed RPPC.