Anyone You Trade With Leave You Feeling Not So Fresh?

[Exhibitman]

I wonder if anyone else has ever experienced this. I find that there are certain collectors who make me feel like I've been ripped off any time I deal with them, even if the terms are objectively fair or even good for me. Perhaps it is the negotiating style or the tone of the discussion, but I find that there are just some collectors who I don't want to transact with regardless of the terms.

[HRBAKER]

Adam,
Not really. It seems to more of an issue sometimes with folks who may want something you have that you don't want to trade. Some can be relentless and you begin to understand how they accumulate what they do.

[mintacular]

Yes, there are a couple of people that I don't appreciate so I just ignore their pm's, etc...I do think there are instances where both parties can't come to terms on a final $. When that happens the tone/conversation should end respectfully even if a deal is not reached. Maybe I'm in the minority but since this board was created for collectors I don't think the B/S/T should be treated as a high-stakes game of poker.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I wonder if anyone else has ever experienced this. I find that there are certain collectors who make me feel like I've been ripped off any time I deal with them, even if the terms are objectively fair or even good for me. Perhaps it is the negotiating style or the tone of the discussion, but I find that there are just some collectors who I don't want to transact with regardless of the terms.

Um, many.

[DaveH]

My ex-wife.

dh

[Ladder7]

There are a couple of persistent little monkeys that are amusing, with the back n forth banter. The impersonal tikes that sulk are just a turn-off, and I wouldn't sell a poor common to for a G. Some get caught up in this rarity thing and it can make us social retards.

Thing is, much of this prewar stuff is readily available... I'm often able to find a suitable niche filler in short order.

Very few of us DB's here, in my experience... And by a huge margin, my inter/transactions on the BST have been a hoot. Steve

[slidekellyslide]

My first ever transaction on this board I got ripped in a trade, but didn't realize it until a week or so later as I was doing more digging and saw that severely miscut T-206 cards can bring a premium. My own fault I guess, but I really felt ripped off after I found that out. That was in 2004, I haven't had a bad trade on this board since then.

[sportscardpete]

It depends... There are certain people I love dealing with and others that leave a lot to be desired. But usually if a trade goes through I never have a bad taste. I wouldn't do a deal unless I was happy in the end!

[Wite3]

Certainly people I would not trade with. Even if the terms were in my favor. I would rather deal with people who are respectful, polite, and helpful. Generally, I have had some very nice dealings with people on the board.

Joshua

[steve B]

I guess I'm a bit odd, as I'm usually ok with most people. All the trades/purchases here have been really good.

Back when there were shops everywhere and any flea market had 3-4 dealers there were a few guys I had little respect for. Generally ones that didn't know much if anything about cards. Some were decent at business, and I respected them for that but not for card knowledge. I'd shop what I called the "clueless and obnoxious circuit" about every 3-6 months just to see what they'd lucked into. No big scores, but a few interesting cards cheap. A couple worn 49 leaf for .25 each because " those aren't in beckett so they can't be worth anything"
My favorite was the guy at the flea market who somehow got the impression I was some sort of bigtime dealer. Not really hard to understand as my usual response to his pushy sales pitch for new stuff was to tell him I already had it. So one day I tell him I'm thinking of selling some stuff at the flea market. He asks me to come around behind the van and I'm figuring he's making an offer for my inventory or maybe offering his- or maybe a threat- He was that sort of odd. Any way, he hands me 3 boxes of cards and says they're mine for free if I don't set up at the flea market! Probably about $45 worth of boxes at the time. Nice, a bribe from a dealer! I still feel bad about never letting on that I wasn't a dealer, just a guy with some extras to sell. But at the time the occasional free box of cards was a nice perk since I was making about $30 a week. He probably gave me 5-6 more batches of stuff over the next couple years.

SteveB

[B O'Brien]

I stopped going to shows back in the day because it was nothing but scum bags and hustlers in my area. I personally love the dealing here. I have had a couple odd offers over the last few years, but it has always been "thanks for the time and good luck finding it someplace else" and we were both on our way!

I will admit that I did beg DavidR to sell me a card, once a quarter for two years, but hopefully, other than that I have left folks feeling good about our deals. I hope I have made it up to David with a few cards to fill a couple of those troublesome holes though.

Hope all is well,
Bob

[David R]

Originally Posted by B O'Brien

I stopped going to shows back in the day because it was nothing but scum bags and hustlers in my area. I personally love the dealing here. I have had a couple odd offers over the last few years, but it has always been "thanks for the time and good luck finding it someplace else" and we were both on our way!

I will admit that I did beg DavidR to sell me a card, once a quarter for two years, but hopefully, other than that I have left folks feeling good about our deals. I hope I have made it up to David with a few cards to fill a couple of those troublesome holes though.

Hope all is well,
Bob

Bobby, I didn't mind your persistence at all. I always enjoy talking about rare-backed HOFers with you and have appreciated you helping me fill a few holes in my HOF back collection. And I do still have that Cycle Collins.

As for the original post, all my deals on the BST have been terrific.

Best,
David R

[DJR]

.

[hangman62]

Im a long time collector and trader..had a run in with a guy recently over a trade proposal.
We were considering trading 30s DiamondStars high#s ( prety tough cards)
He insisted that because I got a good deal on ebay and picked one up cheap in the past..that I shouldnt grade and value the card per book for trade purposes..simply trade the card to him for what i payed. I tried to explain how it doesnt matter what a guy payed for a card..if your trading..you need a guide both sides agree to..No....... he wanted to trade based on "what we payed for cards" ?

[Exhibitman]

Hangman, you've touched upon the issue that set me off initially to write the opening post, the "you should sell it to me on the cheap because you didn't pay much for it" argument. In other words, I am supposed to give you my profit on a good deal. The variant on that cost question that I was thinking of is the unsolicited offer for a rare item I don't even have for sale that not only demands that I agree to sell it but also that I assign a monetary value to it rather than the offeror starting with a price or asking me what I will take. In other words, asking me to bid against myself rather than stepping up and making an offer for the item. I really hate that technique and I usually respond to it either with a flat-out rejection or with a demand that is 10x what I think it is "worth." Then, of course, they come back with all sorts of arguments for why the item isn't worth what I demanded and I usually end up telling them to go find it somewhere else for that price. It seems logical to me that anyone making an unsolicited request for a collector to sell an item that is rare and isn't for sale would understand that there should be an offer made that had better knock my socks off, or not even bother.

I watch Pawn Stars with my daughter and I try to use it to discuss negotiating techniques with her. One of the things I tell her is never to give your opponent information that can be used against you--like answering a cost basis question from an opponent or volunteering that the item cost a certain amount, or assigning a value to it. Whenever some rube tells Rick that he paid ten bucks for the item at a garage sale, you know he's going to get low-balled in the negotiation. The correct answer is "what I paid and what I value it at are irrelevant to the discussion of what it is worth to you on resale."

[Leon]

My standard answer when anyone asks what I paid for something is, $1. It doesn't matter what it is.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I watch Pawn Stars with my daughter and I try to use it to discuss negotiating techniques with her. One of the things I tell her is never to give your opponent information that can be used against you--like answering a cost basis question from an opponent or volunteering that the item cost a certain amount, or assigning a value to it. Whenever some rube tells Rick that he paid ten bucks for the item at a garage sale, you know he's going to get low-balled in the negotiation. The correct answer is "what I paid and what I value it at are irrelevant to the discussion of what it is worth to you on resale."

The Pawn stars give their "opponent" information all the time by calling in "experts" and letting the expert tell them what it's worth right in front of the seller. I doubt they ever do this when the cameras aren't rolling.

[Exhibitman]

Yes but how reliable are they? I know that the times they've been offered entertainment stuff I am familiar with the appraisers were low. Plus, they rarely step up and pay anywhere close to the valuation anyway, so it is all funny money from their perspective since the seller will never see more than a fraction of it.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Yes but how reliable are they? I know that the times they've been offered entertainment stuff I am familiar with the appraisers were low. Plus, they rarely step up and pay anywhere close to the valuation anyway, so it is all funny money from their perspective since the seller will never see more than a fraction of it.

I hear ya', but it's funny to see the interview before the person goes in where they are hoping to get $200 and then the expert tells them it's worth $20,000 and they leave with $10,000 when all they wanted was $200.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Leon

My standard answer when anyone asks what I paid for something is, $1. It doesn't matter what it is.

I like to throw around the phrase "it grows on trees in my backyard" quite a bit.

[kcohen]

For me, a major issue I have with the "what did you pay for it" element of valuation carries a presupposition that my time is worthless. In other words, if I got a great deal on an item, it is normally in part because of the time I've spent acquiring knowledge, cultivating contacts, bird dogging items, going to auctions, negotiating, etc. There is also the element of risk assumed by putting up the money for items for which there is no guarantee of being able to sell.

I used to tell friends who buy from me what I paid for something. But I do this no more as they would always take that figure and work from there instead of using the market or book value as a basis and then working down. Lesson learned. That said, I do pass on the benefit of a good deal on an acquisition to friends and people who buy from me regularly. But then, I don't buy and sell cards for a living, thankfully.

[Bosox Blair]

Allow me to present another thought. What the seller recently paid for a card is relevant to what the market value is...especially if the price was achieved in the open market (ie. at auction).

If the seller won a recent auction with active bidding, the price paid is certainly an important data point in determining market value (price guides...pretty much useless).

Another way to put this is don't expect to buy items at auction and then flip them for more because the "value" is higher than you paid. Says who?

On the other hand, if the seller recently got the item at a "dealer's discount" at a show, or in a large lot of other items, I find it more likely he could expect profit.

Cheers,
Blair

[ullmandds]

In my experience...trading can be quite difficult as people get emotionally attached to their cards and value them higher than reality dictates! I have had a few decent...somewhat fair trades...although most of the time I feel like I got taken advantage of in the process.

[DJR]

.

[kcohen]

Whenever I trade, I ususally feel like i got the short end. Many people do I think as trading is difficult. That said, if both sides in a trade feel like they got hosed, then it was probably an equitable trade.

[obcmac]

Well, I happen to be the other party in Hangman's trade. I was trying to do him a favor by offering up a slabbed sgc30 diamond star high number that he needed...and he wanted to trade me another DS (unslabbed and in lower grade) that he picked up the day before for $21 (that I didn't need). I said I have x in it...if you want to trade me cards that you have x in, I'll be happy to trade. Of course, his cards that he paid x for were worth a lot more than the card I paid the same x for, so the deal wouldn't be fair to him. So yeah, I thought it was a pretty terrible deal too.

It's like every dealer that I traded with when I was a kid...sure kid, the guide says $10, but it's really only worth $5...and the card you want says 1, but it's really worth $10...just give me $5 and the card, then throw it another $5 because I have a business to run blah blah blah.

It is still my greatest joy in collecting...a fair trade.

Mac

[Leon]

So, just to make sure I am getting this straight. A fair trade is when both parties think they got screwed

[ullmandds]

Mac...funny...that's how I feel to0...like dealing with card dealers as a kid! Or like when you want to buy a car with a 6 speed...it's so rare and requires a premium...and when you trade it in...it's undesireable and the dealer offers you less!

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I watch Pawn Stars with my daughter and I try to use it to discuss negotiating techniques with her. One of the things I tell her is never to give your opponent information that can be used against you--like answering a cost basis question from an opponent or volunteering that the item cost a certain amount, or assigning a value to it. Whenever some rube tells Rick that he paid ten bucks for the item at a garage sale, you know he's going to get low-balled in the negotiation. The correct answer is "what I paid and what I value it at are irrelevant to the discussion of what it is worth to you on resale."

You hit the nail right on the head with that one, Adam! From a sheer business perspective, Rick really knows his stuff--if he makes 1,000 deals and saves $100 on each one, he figures he's ultimately made $100,000 thereon.

Best regards to the most knowledgeable Exhibits guy I know.

Larry

[murcerfan]

my favorite are the guys who post "want to buy" this or that, usually something hard to find, and then upon being offered the card(s) at a reasonable retail price, they start quoting me e-bay sales or out of touch book values. I always respond by saying that they should buy the card(s)from that book or get the card(s) on e-bay, cause those sound like quite good deals to me.

edited to add:
....and then there are the flippers.

[hangman62]

Mac,
I disagree with you.. when trading ball cards.."what you have into it" has nothing to do with the trade. It doesnt matter that a guy picked up a "an Ebay steal", " bought the cards in a close out" or got an incredible deal at a garage sale.. The important thing when trading is the cards should be properly graded and valued. And above all both sides must be completely happy with the swap.

[Kenny Cole]

+1

[marcdelpercio]

Just wanted to put in a good word for Mac. I have done several relatively high dollar multi-card trades with him and have always found him to be very reasonable on values, easy to deal with, and willing to put some high quality cards on the table.

I am a very frequent trader myself...in fact I prefer it to selling. In my experience, there are basically three categories I put a trader in.

The first is a person who seems to genuinely want to make a fair deal whether it's a $20 card or a $2000 lot and is willing to value items reasonably and pull the trigger on a deal.

The second is a person who seems to want to haggle values down to the penny and conditions of commons down to the micro-grade. These are the ones that leave me often feeling like I've gotten the worse end of the deal. If it's a card I really want, I don't mind as much as I'm usually willing to trade at a bit of a premium for something I like a bunch...but the negotiation process can be grueling.

The third is a person who either has no clue about the value of baseball cards or else thinks I have no clue about the value. These are people who make offers so completely ridiculous, it is difficult to even come up with an appropriate reply.

Overall, I would say that I'm very happy with almost all of the trades I've made on the B/S/T and it's easy to say "no thanks" to the ones that don't work for me.

[teetwoohsix]

I've been pretty lucky- I mostly just buy, and every board member I've bought cards from have been excellent to deal with.

Made one trade quite awhile back and walked away very happy (thanks again Jim)- was very simple- I posted what I had to trade and what I wanted in return, was contacted by a great board member who was down for the trade and had what I was looking for- done deal. Prices of what one another paid for their cards was never a topic, for IMO it didn't matter.

I think if one half of the trading party is left feeling not so fresh, something wasn't right. Just my opinion.

[atx840]

Have made two trades recently from the BST and could not have imagined them going any better. Similarly with the multiple cards I have bought.

[asoriano]

Originally Posted by murcerfan

my favorite are the guys who post "want to buy" this or that, usually something hard to find, and then upon being offered the card(s) at a reasonable retail price, they start quoting me e-bay sales or out of touch book values. I always respond by saying that they should buy the card(s)from that book or get the card(s) on e-bay, cause those sound like quite good deals to me.

+1

[smtjoy]

Three trades in the last month and happy with them all. I find that some people are much more open to trading than others.

[Tcards-Please]

+1 Marc

I too must say that I've made several trades with Mac and all have been positive. He's definitely one of the best, right up there with all the other board members that I've dealt with.

r/

Frank

Originally Posted by marcdelpercio

Just wanted to put in a good word for Mac. I have done several relatively high dollar multi-card trades with him and have always found him to be very reasonable on values, easy to deal with, and willing to put some high quality cards on the table.

I am a very frequent trader myself...in fact I prefer it to selling. In my experience, there are basically three categories I put a trader in.

The first is a person who seems to genuinely want to make a fair deal whether it's a $20 card or a $2000 lot and is willing to value items reasonably and pull the trigger on a deal.

The second is a person who seems to want to haggle values down to the penny and conditions of commons down to the micro-grade. These are the ones that leave me often feeling like I've gotten the worse end of the deal. If it's a card I really want, I don't mind as much as I'm usually willing to trade at a bit of a premium for something I like a bunch...but the negotiation process can be grueling.

The third is a person who either has no clue about the value of baseball cards or else thinks I have no clue about the value. These are people who make offers so completely ridiculous, it is difficult to even come up with an appropriate reply.

Overall, I would say that I'm very happy with almost all of the trades I've made on the B/S/T and it's easy to say "no thanks" to the ones that don't work for me.

[Gradedcardman]

I recently made a purchase of some Sovereign T206's from a board member. As we started talking about price he made a comment about what he had in a given card. I told him that quite honestly I did not care. Something is only worth what someone is willing to pay. As far as trades go, if I make a trade then it was beneficial for me. I hope not to be perceived as someone who screws another on a trade but why the heck would you make the trade if your not happy ?

[E93]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Yes but how reliable are they? I know that the times they've been offered entertainment stuff I am familiar with the appraisers were low. Plus, they rarely step up and pay anywhere close to the valuation anyway, so it is all funny money from their perspective since the seller will never see more than a fraction of it.

I'm sure they have standing arrangements with appraisers to low-ball by X%. For those who are in business the quoted retail number may actually be what they are willing to pay Rick if he gets it. Who knows?
JimB