Very strange.... W575-1 Kelly that just ended 3 seconds ago ???

[fkw]

This card is very strange, it has the font of a E135, and the design/photo of a E121/W575-1 etc.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=380316375790

I believe its NOT an altered E135 (card number removed), I dont have my guides with me but I dont think Kelly is even in the E135 set.

The closest thing I know of is the fake Kendig Chocolate cards that had the same look (E135's with the card number removed). But this card has a better quality image and looks to be the correct card stock (Kendig fakes have a glossy surface and a yellow look to the image and the card stock is thinner)
Plus its graded by SGC and they dont grade fakes too often if ever...


Very strange card!

PS. Seller is in SF and thats where Kelly lived for many many years.

Rhett what do you think???

[brianp-beme]

I saw this listing but didn't notice the font differences...wow Frank has a pair of eagle eyes. I don't have much to offer on this weird variation, but thought I would share another oddity in the W575/E121 family that I don't remember seeing elsewhere. Both of these Hollacher cards are from the E121 Series of Eighty with the "Lancaster and York, Penna" in plain lettering on the back, but the font sizes of the print on the front are noticeably different in size. The standard printing size is the card with the sharp corners, while the card with the "1921" written on front is the unusually small font size. I layed the two on top of each other to clarify the different fonts.

These sets sure are one big puzzle...thanks Frank for pointing out the "E135" connection on the Kelly.

Brian

[brianp-beme]

Heck I checked and danged if I don't have a Walter Schang W575 card with the E135 type font. Will post a scan within the next couple of days, and good golly will do my best to figure out what thickness of paper it has (since it is unslabbed) as compared to the family of various E121-esqe sets as Rhett has detailed. Shoot I probably have more old fashioned gee-whizisms than any other darn person who posts here.

Brian

[rhettyeakley]

Frank (and Brian), that is a very interesting card. It has front characteristics of both types E135 & E121. I have only ever seen one other card with these characteristics that's legitimate and I think it was the same Schang card that Brian has... Brian is the Schang you have trimmed around the edges and did it come from a group of 10-12 cards on ebay maybe a year or two ago? I think it is the same card.

Anyways, strange card that doesn't seem to follow the pattern that we have seen before. This is why these sets are so interesting to me. I haven't been watching ebay like a hawk lately but I woud have bid fairly high on that Kelly had I saw it prior to ending.

-Rhett

[brianp-beme]

Rhett...the card is trimmed narrow along left and right borders, I did pick it up within the last couple of years, and I believe it was from ebay. Quite the memory on this one, Rhett. I will post a scan when I have a chance.

Brian

[brianp-beme]

And for Rhett...have you ever seen the type of print size variation on the E121 of Hollacher that I posted previously? I figure if anyone you might have seen it.

Brian

[brianp-beme]

Here is the scan of the W575 card of Schang with the E135-like font. I would say the thickness of the card is most similiar to that of the E121 series of 80 cards.

Brian

[rhettyeakley]

Brian, that is the exact card I was thinking of, I guess I know who outbid me back then on that lot!

Also, about your Hollacher, I have the following two that show differences in the position of the name in relation to the photo and/or the team/position below. They are more subtle than your Hollacher but they do show that there were at least a few different "runs" of these cards that went to the printers where things were at least positioned differently (the Bagby is REALLY subtle but look at the "M" in JIM in relation to the "el" in Cleveland and you see the diff.) I tried to line up the "photo portions" on each so as to make them easier to compare. Edited to add that all 4 cards below have the "common" E121 series of 80 back (I call it Type 1).

-Rhett

[fkw]

Those are cool, once you see the difference it jumps out.
all 3 are have slightly different types of variations

WOOD the whole caption is shiffed over. one left one right, but the caption looks the same.

BAGBY the main difference I see is in the players name... the gap between JIM and BAGBY, but it throws the whole alignment off

HOLLACHER the main thing I see is the width of the letters in players name..... especially the "L" and "H", and that really makes the name a lot wider.

[nolemmings]

Frank,

Many years ago I saw a fake Henry Johnson's that looked sort of like the fake Kendigs you described---same font as e135 but image less sharp and thinner stock (although not yellowish). The card was of Gilhooley, who I do not believe is even in any of the e121 related sets. It was one of about a half dozen that emanated from a David Festberg sale, according to the guy who let me inspect it. I posted to the board about it then because the whole HJ thing was somewhat mysterious, but can't find the post (may have even been the old fullcount board) That's as close as I've seen to the Kelly you've shown. The fact that the Kelly is another New York card, as is the Schang, makes me wonder if its another small, local set made for the '21 World Series, ala Koesters.

As for font differences in e121, here's another, which I've shown before (note not only the spacing differences in the team name but also the "C" in Cleveland):

[brianp-beme]

Interesting card Todd. It appears that the E121 series of 80 with the "eighty of the" ending on the first line is where a good chunk of the printing differences seem to be occurring on the fronts. I believe I have a W501 Adams that has a letter in the team name that has 'dropped' down...maybe I can scan it for our amusement.

And Rhett I also discovered I have two W575 Wood cards that have different font sizes, and will scan them later. It is interesting to note that one of these two cards does not have that vertical print line that seems to appear on every other Wood E121W575 card I have seen.

Brian

[brianp-beme]

Here is that funky W501 of Adams with the dropped-down and bold "U" (perhaps it sank because of all the extra ink used). There is just enough of the top border to make out a portion of the 'G-4-22' and thus ascertain that this is a W501 card. I have not seen other W501 Adams cards so don't know if this is how they are all printed or not.

I have also included scans of the W575 Woods cards with the different font sizes as a counterpoint to Rhett's E121 examples. As mentioned in previous post the one card doesn't have that vertical print line...are there other Woods E121 cards, etc. out there without that line?

Brian

[rhettyeakley]

Brian, here is my W575-1 Joe Wood I have, notice how much closer the name is on mine to the photo portion--the possibilities are endless with these.
-Rhett