Help With Bryce Harper's AFL Champ Cap

[Basinballers]

We have Bryce Harper's cap that he wore in the Arizona Fall League Championship game. A friend (who works in the clubhouse) wants to consign this in my eBay store. The big problem here is how do we prove the authenticity? Harper did not sign it for him but did write all over the brim prior to wearing it. I use JSA for my signature authenticity and I asked them to look at it at my last session with them. They took photos but after all was said and done, could not authenticate the writing due to Bryce being a relatively new star and not enough hand-writing to compare yet. So here we are with a great item and no way to market it. Any ideas?

[shimozukawa]

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[Basinballers]

Please let me clarify this. I was not clear enough in my post. Sorry. I am not asking for an opinion on the authenticity. I know it is the cap he wore in the game. I am not even asking anyone to believe me. I was just wondering on how to market it as the authenticity is hard to provide. I own a substantial autograph store on eBay and pride myself in only dealing in authentic signatures. As far as this being worth $65, I will ignore that statement. Yes, caps are not as sought after, but this is unique in my opinion. But, again, I am not asking for a value either. I am asking how would you market it? If I am in the wrong forum, I am sorry as I am new to this site. I was told that there are memorabilia collectors with knowledge of game-used equipment here. Game-used is not my expertise, but I do get items from time to time from the AZ Fall League and the Cactus League as I am in AZ. Just was hoping for a tip. A little frustrated now.

[Basinballers]

I also wanted to say that I do know where you were coming from on the writing being a bit different. No offense taken. I would probably say the same thing if I did not know it was his.

[shimozukawa]

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[Basinballers]

JSA did not "fail the writing" They just could not authenticate based on the writing. I do about 200 pieces every quarter with them. Accusing this as fake is kind of over the top. That is very insulting. Hence the Jordan comment. I am not trying to fool anyone. I can see this is going nowhere. Should have never posted it. Thought maybe I would at least get a little respect. I guess I am a victim of all of the crime in the hobby. Very unfortunate. Thanks for the GU tip though. I do appreciate that part.

[shimozukawa]

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[Basinballers]

Originally Posted by shimozukawa

I haven't accused you of anything. I'm pretty outspoken, and if I felt you were trying to fool people, I'd just come out and say it. I merely stated the facts:

1) The cap looks like a normal 59-Fifty.
2) The handwriting on the cap doesn't match examples available to the marketplace from Upper Deck. (This is in reference to general stylization than the actual flow/slant.)
3) JSA cannot authenticate the item, because they have stated an open policy of not authenticating game used items in the past. I'm not sure if that still applies to bats, since PSA has bat authentication now, perhaps JSA has decided to follow along the path. Therefore, the authentication would need to rely upon #2.

All of that stated, I said the item would be rejected based upon handwriting not matching known samples. I'm not exactly sure how that is different from:
"They just could not authenticate based on the writing."

Again, unless JSA has changed policies since the last time I spoke with them, they aren't in the business of game-use authentication. They're in the business of autograph (and by extension, handwriting) authentication.

You're asking how to market an item that only you and your friend are thus-far able to verify to be real. I have tried my best to help you.

Here's how one would market an autograph:

Guarantee it. Lifetime money back guarantee. I have always assumed this to be the lesser of current market value or dollar amount at time of purchase.

I think it's safe to assume that a similar method would work for other difficult to authenticate items. Then again, as an eBay vendor (and not a brick and mortar business), it's difficult to truly offer a lifetime guarantee... so go with the previous suggestion of getting someone from the Scorpions (or preferably Harper, himself) to authenticate the item. And by "someone from the Scorpions," I mean someone from their front office who is likely to still be with the company five years from now.

Thanks for clarifying. I am pretty much in the same boat as to how to market it as you mentioned. Meaning that I can't do it. I asked Jimmy to authenticate as they have done some things like Ali crib notes and writing without signatures for example. JSA does not do game used authentication. (as you mentioned) I provide authentication for 99% of the items that I offer. I just feel that it gives the customer a better feeling of the authenticity. So, we were about to just hang up on this idea as I can not offer items like this that will obviously bring more grief than it is worth. I just thought I would ask for some input and I guess I got it. I did mention that he could provide a letter but then that implicates that he is selling memorabilia and not so good for hid job if you know what I mean. So, I have made up my mind to give it back and it will be in his room along with the Buster Posey glove that we have the same issue with. Kind of funny. He has Posey's catcher's mitt that he used in the 09 AFL, but there is nothing on it that says Buster Posey. He has provided many nice items and that is the good part. Sorry if I came off upset, but knowing that this is a one-of a kind and there is really nothing we can do with it is very frustrating.

[novakjr]

I think what shimo's ultimately getting at, is that he doesn't doubt the authenticity, but aside from getting something in writing from either the team or Bryce himself, you're gonna have a hard time getting any legit authenticators to authenticate it for you.

And I don't think he was accusing you of anything. But the point about the Jordan hats is, with this game used hat having the exact same appearance as a typical hat that "could" be bought at any given store, it's only a matter of time before the market is flooded with a bunch of these hats with the same writing on them, all the while yours will just be lost in the mix without any authentication to make it stand out..

Don't get me wrong here, I don't doubt you one bit...Right now the only that makes this stand out from the rest is that YOU know it's real, having obtained it first-hand. Without authentication, anyone who owns this after you will not KNOW, at that point it becomes BELIEF. And belief doesn't carry as much value as knowing for sure.

Either way, it's a great item.

[Basinballers]

Originally Posted by novakjr

I think what shimo's ultimately getting at, is that he doesn't doubt the authenticity, but aside from getting something in writing from either the team or Bryce himself, you're gonna have a hard time getting any legit authenticators to authenticate it for you.

And I don't think he was accusing you of anything. But the point about the Jordan hats is, with this game used hat having the exact same appearance as a typical hat that "could" be bought at any given store, it's only a matter of time before the market is flooded with a bunch of these hats with the same writing on them, all the while yours will just be lost in the mix without any authentication to make it stand out..

Don't get me wrong here, I don't doubt you one bit...Right now the only that makes this stand out from the rest is that YOU know it's real, having obtained it first-hand. Without authentication, anyone who owns this after you will not KNOW, at that point it becomes BELIEF. And belief doesn't carry as much value as knowing for sure.

Either way, it's a great item.

I agree 100%.

[Basinballers]

Not worth the trouble and I will not offer this hat in my store. Thanks for helping me make up my mind. (though it was a rough ride, I do appreciate all of the input)

[shimozukawa]

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[Bilko G]

Originally Posted by shimozukawa

Cool item, but doubt there's really a market for it, even if you could verify the story/authenticity.

Here i have to disagree with you. If he could have had proper LOA from the team or Bryce himself this item would be very popular and i bet would sell for over $500, maybe even closer to a grand if Bryce supplied the LOA himself.


Comparing an actual game used Baseball cap of the Hottest Prospect/#1 Draft pick in Baseball (With Strasburg of course) in the last 10 years + to just an regular (store bought) autographed Baseball hat of Jagr/Mario is laughable at best.

[shimozukawa]

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[shimozukawa]

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[baseball tourist]

I suggest posting pics of the hat on the GUU site (gameuseduniverse.com). There are a number of very knowledgable game used equipment collectors there that don't read items on this board.

Harper has been under an intense media spotlight for some time and there have been tons of images of him taken. You may get lucky and someone may have come across a pic that will help substantiate the writing on the underside of the brim. Photo matching is a speciality of a few GUU members and with the interest around Harper, I am sure there will be people that would like to help.

With regards to value (realize that you didn't ask) $500 would be a fair starting point if it could be photo matched etc.

Quick note on the price of the singed Pens hat mentioned. Not a game used item, not an item used in the playing of the sport, not really a useful comparison tool.

[Basinballers]

Originally Posted by baseball tourist

I suggest posting pics of the hat on the GUU site (gameuseduniverse.com). There are a number of very knowledgable game used equipment collectors there that don't read items on this board.

Harper has been under an intense media spotlight for some time and there have been tons of images of him taken. You may get lucky and someone may have come across a pic that will help substantiate the writing on the underside of the brim. Photo matching is a speciality of a few GUU members and with the interest around Harper, I am sure there will be people that would like to help.

With regards to value (realize that you didn't ask) $500 would be a fair starting point if it could be photo matched etc.

Quick note on the price of the singed Pens hat mentioned. Not a game used item, not an item used in the playing of the sport, not really a useful comparison tool.

I did search the web hoping to find a photo but none show the under brim of his hat. Odds of getting that would be tough. I will keep looking though. Someone mentioned a bat. Are you referring to the Harper gamer in my store? It is also on consignment from the same source. We are kind of hoping that Bryce makes it back to the AFL next year and maybe we can resolve this then. As far as the Posey glove goes, can an unendorsed glove be authenticated as GU? If so, please tell me who does this.

[shimozukawa]

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[Big Six]

I think that game was shown on MLBtv...did you try to find video from the game. I see guys on GUU who post video captures all the time for bats, jerseys, etc...might be worth it to see if you can find the video of the game.

[Basinballers]

@ Matt: Great idea. I will look for it.

As far as marketing it with the bat, that is also a great idea but at this point I can not offer the hat as there is no way to document it other than the story at this point. I really take pride in trying to only offer the real deal and even though I am sure that it is, any doubt that may arise from a customer would cause way too much damage to my integrity. I will definitely keep it in mind though.

The Posey glove is not in my possession and I have only seen it once. I forget exactly what brand it is. Just know that he gave the mitt to one person and the rest of his catcher's gear to another while cleaning up after the 09 season. I found it odd that a prospect of his stature would not have an endoresed glove. Then again, I am no GU expert by any means.

[Basinballers]

I looked at some video clips on MLB from the Post-Game and they showed Bryce working out before they showed some batting clips. He was wearing a hat with a white New Era flag on the side! I almost crapped myself! This hat has a red logo. After watching it I found another from earlier in the season on MLB with the same workout clip. Whew! That really freaked me a bit. I found an article on the game with this photo. It is the red logo just like this one. It also has the bottom of the brim but no light on it. I blew it up but just can not tell. I will keep digging. This is kind of fun anyway. Thanks for everyone's input!
Update: Check this tidbit out. Here is an outtake from an interview:

Do you keep up with any of the articles written about you?

A: I don't read anything. I didn't even read the Sports Illustrated article. I don't read anything at all. I just focus on my game. Whatever I think I need to work on, I look at myself or ask my pops.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today...10/269976.html

CALLED HIS DAD POPS! That is one of the words on the hat! Maybe onto something?

[baseball tourist]

Originally Posted by Basinballers

I did search the web hoping to find a photo but none show the under brim of his hat. Odds of getting that would be tough. I will keep looking though. Someone mentioned a bat. Are you referring to the Harper gamer in my store? It is also on consignment from the same source. We are kind of hoping that Bryce makes it back to the AFL next year and maybe we can resolve this then. As far as the Posey glove goes, can an unendorsed glove be authenticated as GU? If so, please tell me who does this.

not the clearest image but does hint at a Harper's writing preferences under the bill.



with regards to the Posey glove. It should be easier to match a glove style as it should be quite visible in many shots.

Have fun digging! Good luck.

[Basinballers]

Originally Posted by baseball tourist

not the clearest image but does hint at a Harper's writing preferences under the bill.



with regards to the Posey glove. It should be easier to match a glove style as it should be quite visible in many shots.

Have fun digging! Good luck.

Thanks. I did look at this one. I blew it up too. It did look like writing under it, but I am unsure. I am going to see if I can get my hands on the Posey glove. I will be going to the Giants camp a few times in a couple of weeks. Maybe I can get him to sign it GU.

[Basinballers]

Got a bit of clarification. Turns out that he left the hat on the table next to his locker after the championship game and the cleaning out of lockers. He is not 100% sure it was the hat worn in that game but it was on of two game used hats. Players typically have two different hats on this team. This makes it a little more difficult. We are going to go after the Posey glove and a pair of his workout shoes (batting cage ect..) from the 09 season. We should be able to get those taken care of this spring. He also has Dominic Brown's cleats from last year (09), but again, only a number written in sharpie. Brown will not be back this way except at the D-backs/Phillies games. I have been trying to talk him into lowering the price on the Harper bat and that may happen. We have been offered $555 but kicked it back.

[shimozukawa]

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[khkco4bls]

why pay 500.00 dollars for a hat of a guy thats done nothing.

[Bilko G]

Originally Posted by khkco4bls

why pay 500.00 dollars for a hat of a guy thats done nothing.

its called "speculating" or "prospecting". People do it to make money.

[shimozukawa]

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[Leaf]

Strasburg's USA hat sold for $375 to me (through MLB.com). Then I sold it for $1000 (at which point another card company cut it up, not my company). If Stars brought $1000 at high point, there is a little room at $500 IMHO.
Long term, not a great buy. Short flip, maybe..

BG/Leaf

[shimozukawa]

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[Basinballers]

Originally Posted by shimozukawa

So your source's story has changed from "Bryce Harper gave me this hat which he used in the AFL Championship game, but he refused to sign the hat." to "I found this hat next to Bryce Harper's locker on a table after the players cleaned out their lockers for the season."... and you don't find that HIGHLY disconcerting? Those are two VERY different stories. Especially after you were aggressively defensive when I mentioned that there were issues with potential authentication.

Given this new origin story, I would even question the validity of the bat being game-used by Harper. How do you know that your friend didn't simply find Harper's bat in the garbage (or on the ground or whatever) after batting practice? The bat might not be game used... heck, it might not even have been used by Harper! After all, it's not unheard of for players to use other players' bats. Yes, players do allow teammates to use their bats on occasion. Some players won't allow others to use their bat, but some players will.

To be honest, this calls into question the integrity of every item he's ever given to you or that you've sold for him. Just my thoughts.

It is responses like this that make me realize that posting items such as these on a public forum only draw ridicule from the angry people. I am done. Thanks to all of those that tried to help. I do not have time for this kind of ridicule. It is VERY embarrassing. I mean where do you get off? Really. Respond as you wish cause I won't be here to read it. You try to be honest and all you get is hatred.

[fkw]

FWIW

What shimozukawa said, is exactly what I was thinking myself while reading through this post for my first time, its realistic.

IMO the only way you can sell that hat is with a letter from the team or Harper..... But that boat has passed, probably.
Or if you can positively ID it with a clear closeup picture, but that would be hard because that type of writing seems easy to duplicate, and the hat was barely used in a game, or maybe not even in a game from what the new story shows.
If it was owned by John Wetteland or another player who rarely changed their hats, its far easier to ID it with a photo. The Harper hat is basically "new" still in appearance.