Amazing Autograph Find - Need Help With It Please

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Posted By: Josh

Well, the day finally came... I work with all senior citizens and I make it a point to mention my sportscards and memorabilia collecting, and my client today showed me this.



Now, I can identify 4 of the players... Cy Young, Roger Bresnahan, Connie Mack & Topsy Hartsel
I don't know the other two and cannot find them in the player registry. My client said he believes the last one was the manager of the Toledo Mud Huns in 1943.

The guy told me how he got it also... May 14, 1943 at a father/son banquet at the Monroe Street Methodist Church in Toledo, OH. The event was sponsored by the Toledo Mud Hens. He was 14 years old at the time, he's 76 now.

He also has a miniature bat made by Krens, called a Krens Special with Toledo Muds Hens on the barrel, which he also had signed by Cy Young at the same event, but the auto's were all in pencil, and the Young signature on the bat is barely legible. Really only the Y from Cy and the NG are clearly legible.

Anyways, I asked him what he planned to do with them down the road and he didn't think anyone in his family would even know who the players were or appreciate the auto's. I asked him if someone offered him some money for them, would he consider selling it, and he said he would certainly consider it. How much is something like this piece worth? I'd certainly make him a legitimate offer for it, it is a beautiful item with unquestionable authenticity. What about the mini bat with Young's auto in the state that it is in?

Any help greatly is appreciated.

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Posted By: DJ

Nice piece!

My best guess is that the piece is valued in the $700-800 range.

Thanks for sharing.

DJ

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Posted By: joe brennan

It would mean a great deal more to me than to you. Send it to me for my birthday, May 14th. Thanks in advance Joe

Edited to add; Very nice piece!!

"I had the right to remain silent. I just didn't have the ability" Ron White

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Posted By: davidcycleback

In Seattle where I live, and elderly man who worked at a Goodwill store found an old autograph book filled there with baseball autographs. Included Ruth, Jim Thorpe and Jimmie Foxx. It was geuine too, later sold by one of the big auction houses. The book was anonymously dropped off at Goodwill as part of a pile of used books. The Goodwill employee put up notices trying to find the owner and there was even a newspaper article about his find, but no one ever came back to claim it.

After his death, I met his daughter and saw the book in person. She had to sell the book because she didn't have enough money to bury the her dad's ashes as he had wished. Happily for her, the album sold for good money (I had no part of the sale, other than recommending an auction house).

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Posted By: DJ

The key here is actually Roger Bresnahan who passed away a year after this piece was signed. You usually only find his signature on documents that sell for $800-1000. Individually, you could probably get three times my above estimate because you can have the option of displaying the signatures individually and can't really cut around this piece. Stories like this rule. It seems that most the finds we find our found within the pages of a glossy catalog.

DJ

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Posted By: leon

Congrats on your find. I don't recognize your login and this is off topic. Please email me and let's have a chat. Per the forum rules only board participants are allowed off topic stuff. thanks for your understanding...

edited to say that Josh and I had a chat and all is well...there are reasons to let only board participants post o/t......thanks again...

and again for grammar...yuck

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Posted By: Rhys

I would say your piece is worth about $800-$1,000 as well. Top Hartsel is rare and I sold one a few years back for around $250 alone. It is tough with a multisigned piece though. Nice item!

Rhys

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Posted By: Nick

He played from 1911 to 1919, primarily as a reserve. He was a Toledo native, and died in 1959.

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Posted By: Anonymous

If the Young and RB signatures didn't overlap like that, this would be a $1200-1500 piece. But since the RB signature is basically covered by the Young, you will get close $800-1000.

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Posted By: Tom Hufford

Just like in card collecting, the autographs of Hall of Famers usually get most of the attention, but aren't always the scarce ones (yea, Wagner and Plank get the attention in T206, but then there's Demmitt, O'Hara, Magie; and Hoblitzell, Lowdermilk, Irving Lewis, Mike Mitchell, Peaches Graham, etc. that are the toughies in other sets.

The "value" in this signed team sheet is obviously in the Bresnahan (the first of the 3 HOFers on the sheet to die). But, while he is expensive, he certainly shouldn't be considered rare. The fact that he was associated with the Toledo team later in life means that he is somewhat readily available (although costly) on signed contracts, player transfers, etc. Mack and Young are easy to obtain, since they were accessible and lived until the mid-1950's.

Frank Gilhooley isn't a common autograph, but they turn up every once in a while. He was active in the Toledo area as the deputy county treasurer for a number of years (died in 1959) and his son worked for the Toledo club for a long time.

Bresnahan is much more common than the Topsy Hartsel, even though they both died in 1944. Face it - more people asked a star player for his autograph than a non-star. Hartsel had a long career, and sometimes turns up on a team sheet or ball.

The rarest signature on this sheet is the player no one else has identified - Peter Robert McShannic (died in 1946). Pete played 3B for the 1888 Pittsburg Alleghenys (a teammate of Jake Beckley, Billy Sunday, and Pud Galvin). The only other signature of his that I have ever seen is the one that I have, that was obtained from his family many years ago. There may be other McShannic autographs out there, but there are at least 50-100x more Bresnahans.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

Wow!

How cool is that?

An autograph from a guy who played all the way back in 1888!!!

http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/mcshape01.shtml

On the same piece of paper as Cy Young!!

Who cares what the "price" is... this is cool!!

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Posted By: DJ

If Harry Stovey made the Hall of Fame, those who only collect "good" players (good= Hall of Fame) will suddenly search the world for anything with Stovey's likeness and his n172's will quadruple over night.

We, the board appreciate the accomplishments (and history) of those who came before us and the fact that McShannic played one year of baseball 100+ doesn't impress the casual fan who may considers vintage "1950's" and may not do research on players from the era.

They will pay big dollars for autographs of Harry Agganis and Roger Maris though, but the signatures of most pre-war cards get ignored. I purchased the estate sale of a person who worked in the Pirates organization in the 1900's and found a pack of around 50+ Christmas cards signed by players from that era (Leach, Abstein, Swacina, Leifield etc.) and they didn't exactly set the world on fire in the wrong place, eBay (2002). I did receive dozens of e-mails about Vic Willis, Hans Wagner and Fred Clarke though.

It is a neat item made neater by the further research done by a Board member. I don't think this piece is worth anymore though as most peopleLe would simply look at the Hall Of Famers as McShannic's claim to fame is that he played early and I doubt he received a lot of fan mail for that one season. Who cares. Neat item!

DJ

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Posted By: jeffdrum

The fact he made nine errors about thirty games may explain why he played but one year!

[jtschantz]

I came across this thread when looking for Frank Gilhooley Sr. (his son the Mud Hens broadcaster passed last week) items and have done some reasearch on this event that took place in Toledo in 1943. I have a copy of the Toledo Blade article that I can email (can't figure out how to link it here) to whomever started this thread. The guest at the Boys Club event included, Connie Mack, Cy Young, Roger Breshenhan and Frank Gilhooley Sr.