O'Keeffe Daily News Article this Morning

[Rich Klein]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/mo..._a.html?page=1

Regards
Rich

[David W]

.....and people complain about ebay.........

[Peter_Spaeth]

"The court documents, and a motion for protective order that was also filed on Wednesday, say Mastro Auctions controller Walter Tomala violated Illinois and federal laws by making 34 harassing phone calls in 46 minutes to Forman's home between 1:58 a.m. and 2:44 a.m. on Sept. 10."

Persistent!!

[Exhibitman]

Wow. This is gonna be fun...

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

"The court documents, and a motion for protective order that was also filed on Wednesday, say Mastro Auctions controller Walter Tomala violated Illinois and federal laws by making 34 harassing phone calls in 46 minutes to Forman's home between 1:58 a.m. and 2:44 a.m. on Sept. 10."

Persistent!!

Nah; speed dial.

[barrysloate]

I don't think Corey will be too happy that he was cited in this article.

[calvindog]

I don't know about that, Barry. Corey never struck me as a coward who was afraid of his own shadow.

[Leon]

Those phone calls would have pissed me off royally.




Jeff should quit pulling punches and just say what he really feels too...


"This is just another example of their fraud," countered Jeffrey Lichtman, one of Forman's attorneys. "It was flat-out thievery."

[barrysloate]

Jeff- Corey doesn't like to discuss his collection publicly. The legal ramifications of this are a separate issue.

Rich K.- how did Michael O'Keeffe become McKeefe?

[calvindog]

Barry, are you representing Corey? Or just pretending you know what he's thinking? My guess is that Corey is concerned about fraud in the hobby, period, and wants it gone. Like I said, not everyone is terrified of their own shadow; I'm certain Corey is not.

Edited to add: you recognize that there is a bigger picture here, right?

[barrysloate]

I'll speak to Corey shortly and see what he says about it. If he's happy I will retract my statement.

[calvindog]

Good, I won't leave the house until then. I will alert the court as well to the results of your conversation with Corey because, after all, the truth isn't as important as social proprieties.

[barrysloate]

Jeff- when Corey purchased the T210 Jackson he told me about it, with the specific instruction not to discuss it with anyone. I know his position on fraud in the hobby; I am as much in the loop as you are. But unless he orchestrated this and specifically wanted both the card and the price he paid for it made public, I will assume he would have preferred this was not in the paper.

I just got off the phone with Corey, and he said he was not happy that this appeared in the Daily News.

[calvindog]

Barry, I'm sure Doug wasn't happy either.

Let's pull all public litigations out of court which upset witnesses: lawsuits, criminal cases, etc.

[calvindog]

By the way, I just spoke with Corey and he indicated that he is very upset that you drew attention to his mention in the article.

[bijoem]

is this a NYC dinner thread?

[martindl]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Let's pull all public litigations out of court which upset witnesses: lawsuits, criminal cases, etc.

Boy, talk about putting words in peoples' mouths. Not sure if there's some backstory beef you have with Barry, but its hard to understand your twisting of a simple but likely true comment. People not wanting their names publicly strewn all over a NY newspaper hardly equates to them not wanting to litigate.

[calvindog]

And last time I checked, public filings are just that. And the media is allowed to get such filings from the court. And Corey isn't litigating anything.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by bijoem

is this a NYC dinner thread?

Apparently not.

[oldjudge]

$300,000 (How much?) for a T210 Jackson--that's the biggest crime of all

[jboosted92]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Jeff- Corey doesn't like to discuss his collection publicly. The legal ramifications of this are a separate issue.

Rich K.- how did Michael O'Keeffe become McKeefe?

Its like Bradgelina...

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by jboosted92

Its like Bradgelina...

Thanks

Rich

[drc]

The only crime I can see is Jeff wearing that tie with that jacket. I recommend you plead color blindness.

(And, no, I have no idea what Jeff is wearing.)

[dstudeba]

I have had dealings with both Mastro and SGC over the years. I have no problem if those particular transactions were made public in a court filing. However I would be disappointed if I were named in those filings as I expect a degree of privacy as a client.

[calvindog]

So how does one litigate without mentioning or revealing names after receiving information from said people? Protective order? Invisibility cloak?

PS: just counted: more posts on this thread (not including mine) about Corey's feelings than about Dave Forman's family being terrorized at night by Mastro's controller and about revelations of fraud against Mastro made by an ex-Mastro employee. Combined.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

So how does one litigate without mentioning or revealing names after receiving information from said people? Protective order? Invisibility cloak?

PS: just counted: more posts on this thread (not including mine) about Corey's feelings than about Dave Forman's family being terrorized at night by Mastro's controller and about revelations of fraud against Mastro made by an ex-Mastro employee. Combined.

On the one hand, as it's just a pleading not evidence, perhaps "a NY collector" or "a prominent collector" would have sufficed. On the other hand, particularly where alleging fraud which has more stringent pleading requirements, most lawyers' inclination is to be as specific as possible including naming names.

[Leon]

I think it totally sucks what happened to Dave. I would be furious if I were him.

Also, the more that comes out, especially with some revelations today, the less sympathy I am having for some "friends" in the business.

As I told the authorities today, I hope every damn person in this hobby, who has committed fraud of any kind, gets their punishment and is forced to pay restitution. Some things in that article really pissed me off and I don't mind saying it. The hobby is still a great place but I sure hope it gets a lot of cleaning up this year. Something tells me there will be some bombshells going off in the not distant future. Maybe not imminent, but I would think certainly in the next year.

As an aside, the cleaner folks will reap the rewards of not being bad people. Sometimes I almost feel like it's going to end up being "the last man standing" wins.

[calvindog]

Leon, good for you -- that is much appreciated. I'm sure Dave feels the same.

[Exhibitman]

Hey, I know: let's start a trade organization to boost the image of the hobby in the public eye. We can orchestrate a fast response public relations effort to handle articles like this. I figure if we get 20 prominent dealers and investors to pony up $10,000 each...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Adam, the price of joining would probably be shilled up.

[Wesley]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Hey, I know: let's start a trade organization to boost the image of the hobby in the public eye. We can orchestrate a fast response public relations effort to handle articles like this. I figure if we get 20 prominent dealers and investors to pony up $10,000 each...

Your organization is more expensive than the one they were trying to set up at the National.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Wesley

Your organization is more expensive than the one they were trying to set up at the National.

franchise fees are costly.....

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Hey, I know: let's start a trade organization to boost the image of the hobby in the public eye. We can orchestrate a fast response public relations effort to handle articles like this. I figure if we get 20 prominent dealers and investors to pony up $10,000 each...

Adam, good idea. You'll also need some fancy stationary on which are written vague threats to unnamed persons who dare to besmirch our great hobby. Because as you can see, vague threats really serve to shut up those pesky critics.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Adam, good idea. You'll also need some fancy stationary on which are written vague threats to unnamed persons who dare to besmirch our great hobby. Because as you can see, vague threats really serve to shut up those pesky critics.

It's those cranky people on chatboards that are the real problem. That is what those "hobby do-good" organizations are going to expose . Or do I have that backwards.....well, anyway, those organizations are going to include, ....I mean root out.....the bad guys!!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Wesley

Your organization is more expensive than the one they were trying to set up at the National.

There were so many clamoring for admission that they had to raise the price to keep membership within reason.

[Kenny Cole]

I do a lot of fraud cases. By virtue of the area in which I practice, I have a fraud count in at least half my cases. You always plead the who, what, when, where and why as specifically as possible to avoid motions to dismiss. That's just the way it is.

If my goal was to remain a low profile collector, I probably wouldn't be happy either. Unfortunately, when you become involved in an alleged fraudulent scheme, wittingly or unwittingly, that goal ends up being subordinate to the more important goal of facilitating the truth-finding process. And, as Jeff mentioned earlier, pleadings are open to the media unless there is a pretty compelling reason to seal them. The pleadings aren't evidence, they're just allegations. Either a judge or a jury will sort them out later.

Kenny Cole

[Peter_Spaeth]

Ah, the mindset of a rapacious plaintiff's lawyer (redundant, I know). EDIT TO ADD As I said above, I understand why names were named, but I think a pleading could have been fashioned that would have survived dismissal without doing so.

[Kenny Cole]

Hell, its you damn defense lawyers that are always trying to either hide or excuse their client's fraud. We're just trying to expose what y'all are hired to confuse, conceal, or otherwise try to justify.

Kenny

[nolemmings]

Peter, I agree. While I too understand that fraud must be pled with particularity, I have a hard time seeing dismissal of a count that identifies the sale of a T210 Joe Jackson at a certain date and price to a "prominent collector". Can't see the Defendant (or counter-defendant here) arguing to the judge with a straight face that he doesn't know what transaction is at issue.

[Kenny Cole]

Todd,

You go ahead and take that risk. I think I'll plead everything I think I know so that if I draw a judge who thinks the "who" is important, I've given him the information. I'm sort of a better safe than sorry guy.

Kenny

[calvindog]

....especially after the Court had ordered the pleadings to include more particulars.....

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

Hell, its you damn defense lawyers that are always trying to either hide or excuse their client's fraud. We're just trying to expose what y'all are hired to confuse, conceal, or otherwise try to justify.

Kenny

I resemble that remark.

[Kenny Cole]

LOL, I bet. But you get paid either way. I only get paid if I win.

[Rich Klein]

I can be like Mr. Dorskind; make the 1st post and disappear

And next time, I'll get Mr O'Keefe's name correct

Rich

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Wesley

Your organization is more expensive than the one they were trying to set up at the National.

Hey, it costs money to build a smooth flack operation. Just the cost of background checks on possible board members for criminal records and civil lawsuits is like a grand a pop, but who'd be stupid enough to try and set up an operation to boost the integrity of the hobby fronted by guys who have to alert their parole officers when they come to meetings? That'd be like putting Tony Soprano on the board for the Policeman's Ball. It would be a laughingstock and DOA.

[iggyman]

All of these funny lawyer jokes are making me a bit dizzy. Can we get some other type of humor in this thread? Perhaps, some dentist jargon?

Here is my small contribution...

binary clock.jpg

In my line of work, that is funny!

Lovely Day...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

I can be like Mr. Dorskind; make the 1st post and disappear

And next time, I'll get Mr O'Keefe's name correct

Rich

Ya still got it wrong, it's O'Keeffe LOL.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Ya still got it wrong, it's O'Keeffe LOL.

Exactly. The bastard hates cards but he sure loves correct spelling.

[Peter_Spaeth]

That clock thing doesn't make it to base-2 with me.

[calvindog]

If you had to use it in order to bill by the .1 hour increments you'd have that clock memorized backward and forward.