Quote:
Originally Posted by CharleyBrown
Bob, I am on mobile, so I don't have easy access to my research, but I believe there may have been another thread as well, in which I provide substantial evidence to the number distributed, citing research from multiple newspapers across the country.. which also provides evidence as to where the cards were distributed.
Your subtle digs are rather insulting tbh, particularly given that you hadn't taken the time initially to track down any of the posts / research. The research was done for the benefit of the collecting community to get a deeper understanding of Jackie's first endorsement deal. Period. I would have to research further, but I believe, when it was released, the BB portrait card was the widest distributed card since the start of the world war.
FWIW, Philadelphia Gum Company was in its infancy in 1948. I'd be interested in knowing how widely that set was distributed. From what I remember, 1948 marked the year that the U.S. was coming out of a paper shortage, which led to Bowman releasing its 1948 set. It appears as though the Swell Sport cards were given out by shop owners that sold Swell Gum.
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I found your original post coming at me as condescending and insulting to begin with, and so just responded in kind. I asked you for information regarding your research and instead of you responding, someone else linked to your original 2013 thread that supposedly included your research. You had said you previously shared that research on here. Now you're saying that what is in that thread is NOT all the research info after all, and that maybe there's even another thread? So great, where is it? But of course, now you're on mobile and it still isn't available. How about this, before coming back at someone claiming you have this or that detail, facts, evidence, and research to prove your point and basically say you're right and they're wrong, try to actually have the information, data, research, whatever you want to call it, ready and at hand to share and actually back up what you're claiming and saying!!! I can't even begin to guess the number of times on this forum I've dealt with others pulling what seems to be a similar type of action. I'm wrong, they're right, but never answer my questions, provide any factual info, detail, evidence, or logical arguments to back it up, and on and on. It's like a broken record on here many times.
That 2013 thread of yours talked about how the emphasis apparently was to initially distribute to black communities, which makes logical sense to me. it also makes logical sense in that if those Jackie portrait cards were initially only distributed primarily in black communities, to a very small, LIMITED, segment of the population, that would also make perfect sense as to a possible reason maybe why so few of them are still around today. I merely looked at historical demographic and population records to try and determine how much of the population then really had easy and ready access to these cards, based on assumptions YOU had made and put forth in that earlier thread. Now you're mentioning production numbers and distribution records from other newspapers and sources as well and to show where these cards were distributed, and then you go even further and make the claim that you BELIEVE this '47 Bond Bread Robinson portrait card may be the widest distributed card since the start of WW II. I'm assuming when you said widest distributed card you're referring to baseball player cards, and were referring to the 2nd WW, as you weren't completely clear on either point in what you originally said. But then you also state that you'd have to do more research to try and prove that claim/belief. That's just telling everyone that your research maybe isn't so complete to back up all your claims/beliefs after all!!!
I had asked another poster to explain how if this portrait card was so widely distributed, then why are there so few of them still around today. And all they could respond was that they basically didn't have any explanation. Now you're claiming, apparently without really any supporting evidence, detail, or research, that this '47 Robinson portrait card is the most widely distributed baseball card at the time since around 1942. You also posted a newspaper article claiming 2 million Robinson picture cards were printed, and claim these cards were not just regional or limited in their distribution. It is also commonly known and accepted that there would be historic significance placed on Jackie's very first ever card distributed also. So, with all that supposedly behind it, how about you give us a logical, factual, evidentially supported reason or argument why so few of these "47 Jackie portrait cards still exist today then? Based on your research on all the stuff you've been saying, one would expect the exact opposite and that there would likely be more of these '47 Robinson portrait cards out there than anything from maybe '48 and ''49 as well. So, let's hear your logical, factual, evidence and research backed reasoning and answer then as to why there isn't.
And just because a newspaper article claims there were 2 million photo cards of Robinson made, what is it they often say, "If it's on the internet, it must be true!"
Well, in 1947 there was no internet, there were newspapers. And don't kid yourself that reporters back then wouldn't bend the truth to sell papers, especially regarding stories that are advertising based to begin with. At all possible someone at Bond Bread maybe inflated numbers they gave to the papers as to how big the distribution was to look good in the public's eye? And the story doesn't definitively say those 2 million cards were all his '47 portrait cards either, did it?
And speaking of answers, you apparently still haven't answered my first question about all your research then. And you also apparently ignored my second question, which was really more of a request, to give us all the one and only definitive accepted definition of a ballplayer's "true" rookie card, that is accepted by everyone in the hobby. Still waiting to hear that response also! You can claim this "47 Robinson portrait card is his "true" rookie card all you want, but it is still only your opinion!!! Even if your research is found to be 100% accurate and proven true, it is still just your opinion that the '47 Robinson portrait card is his "true" rookie card, nothing more!!! Now if you want to say it is the first Robinson card issued showing him as a MLB player, now that I can agree with.
And by the way, why the mention of the Philadelphia Gum Co. and specifically the '48 Sports Thrills card set? Is it because I mentioned that I thought of it as a true card set, so what, now you want to question its distribution to possibly then claim it is only a regional or limited distribution as well? Be my guest. When I said it was more of a "true" card set, by that I meant that it included numerous subjects, not just one sole subject/player, that the cards were numbered, just like you would often expect and see in a "true" card set, it was made of a typical cardboard material and of a typical, uniform size and design, you would expect to see in a "true" card set of that era, and so on. I also imagine that despite any distribution/demographic limits, the Swell cards were likely distributed/sold in all the predominantly white, as well as probably in all the black communities as well, wherever they did end up being sold/distributed. But that is just my guess/opinion. But based on the research I've seen from you so far, being available to everyone where there were initially sold/distributed does not always seem to be the case with regard to those '47 Robinson portrait cards. Regardless, I also never claimed the '48 Sports Thrills Robinson to be his true rookie card anyway.
I think Adam may have hit the nail on the head in an earlier post where he referenced the Emperor's new clothes. Someone puts something out there and for whatever reason people jump on board and believe it, maybe just because they want to. You don't know me, and I certainly don't know you, but stick around long enough and you'll find out I'll always be the kind of person yelling out, "Hey, the jackass is naked!"