Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowman
He didn't come across to me as being braggadocious. I interpreted it more as him showing everyone what goes on behind the curtain.
The vast majority of people still don't get it. They still think it's a few cards here and there and a handful of bad actors. But it's literally millions of cards. There is no such thing as a gem mint vintage card. The only way to get one is to make one. If you get a truly perfect pack pulled card with the nicest factory edges, corners, and centering you can get, the best it can grade is a 9, and realistically probably an 8 by today's standards. You'd have to pull a Mathis if you want a 10. And all these trimmed cards that pass through grading have shifted the grading scale accordingly. The graders see a "perfect" card and instead of flagging it as trimmed, they instead think that cards in that condition truly do exist out of the pack. So they adjust the scale accordingly, and the best untampered with cards can now no longer achieve mint or gem mint grades. Those are now reserved for cards that look perfect. Or too perfect rather.
Anyone who buys high grade vintage isn't collecting cards. They're collecting slabs. If you want to pay to play that game, then the hobby will provide what you seek. I don't know the extent to which he was/is involved in the trimming scandals and/or profiting from it in the past, but at least Mathis was willing to show you what's really behind that curtain so that we can all be better informed buyers.
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While I agree with the sentiment, I get a lot of "old timer" collections in on consignment and still pull the occasional 9 on a vintage card that is beyond reproach. For instance I just got a 1968 Topps Hockey set in a 50 year old cigar box, got tons of 8's and a couple 9's including Gordie Howe. I've also gotten 9's on commons from 1955 and 1956 in the last year from similar sources. Now if you are talking pre war, I haven't personally submitted a 9, but wouldn't be surprised if there are a handful of legit ones out there in old collections.
Again I agree the majority of new high grades on vintage are suspect, but the problem is you can't just assume everything is bad, though I guess that's one way of protecting yourself.