Quote:
Originally Posted by HistoricNewspapers
ERA+ measures the domiance vs their peers. That is not misused at all: However, no point beating a dead horse:
So the pitchers were elite in 1900-1915 with all those 2.11 ERA's and 40 complete games a year...then forgot how to pitch in the 1930's, then were elite again in the 1960s....but just a few years later forgot how to pitch again when offense upticked....then got real good in the late 80's/early 90's...then forgot how to pitch again starting in 1994?
Sounds like a good plan.
If we flip the switch onto the hitters and peak dominance:
Dante Bichette 1995-1999, 162 game average:
33 HR
137 RBI
.318 BA
Willie Mays best five year stretch in the 1960's when he won an MVP and finished in top five three other of those years.
46 HR
118 RBI
.304 BA
Hank Aaron
40 HR
120 RBI
.313
Bichette beats both in two out of three categories. Raw stats only count remember. If no ERA+, then no OPS+. So if you are championing Koufax and his raw numbers compared to Randy Johnson, then that same method makes Bichette a better hitter at his peak than both Mays and Aaron in the 1960's.
Welcome to the HOF Dante Bichette.
PS The ONLY measurable across eras is:
If you are out there selecting a team, please let me know if you have two pitchers with equal mental capacity, and one is ten inches taller than the other, throws 5-7 MPH harder, has better command, better movement, and more physical mental toughness in pitching through pain.
I'll take the taller kid. You can have the other one.
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You cannot use ERA+ to compare pitchers between eras. Here are the Topps RCs of starting pitchers elected to the HOF by the BBWAA.
1955 Koufax
1957 Drysdale
1959 Gibson
1961 Marichal
1963 Perry
1964 Niekro
1965 Carlton
1965 Hunter
1966 Palmer
1966 Sutton
1966 Jenkins
1967 Seaver
1968 Ryan
1971 Blyleven
1987 Maddux
Between 1955 and 1967 13 starting pitchers elected by the BBWAA to the HOF made their MLB debut. From 1971-1985 zero. MLB talent is not the same from era to era.
I have already shown that why people discount stats of Rockies players, average park factors 118. So, you think picking a Rockies player makes a valid comparison? Lol.
It is not like Bichette faced anywhere near the pitching talent that Mays or Aaron did.
There is a simple reason for the above. MLB was integrated between 1947-1960 seeing an increase in talent in baseball. The rise of the NFL in the 70s and NBA in the 80s has diverted talent from MLB to the NBA and NFL. Jackie Robinson played pro football before baseball. If he was playing pro sports today, it would be in the NFL. Bob Gibson played with the Globetrotters before baseball. If Gibson were playing today, most likely it would be the NBA.
I will take Koufax over Johnson or any other lefty and win championships.