[travrosty]

Here is a Muhammad Alli signed glove that was actually signed by John Olsen, this is an Operation Bullpen piece.

Notice how this auction says 25 days, 2 hours, and 55 minutes left before bidding ends.

It is an active item open for internet bidding, the current bid is 55 dollars.

This is similar to the item I emailed Heritage about when they told me that jsa hadn't looked at the item yet even though it was listed as a jsa auction loa.

Only this is an Olsen signed glove and that was an Olsen signed Ali/Chamberlain photo.

You can see this one has PSA precertification listed, and it is a live item.

This item was subsequently pulled before the end of the auction, as was the Ali/Chamberlain piece I had emailed them about, only this one eventually had PSA getting around to looking at it, and the other piece was pulled when I notified Heritage.

This proves that the "LOA that isn't an LOA" was listed on live items also, not just preview items as PSA knows about this Operation Bullpen signature of John Olsen and wouldn't give a precertification to it if they had actually looked at the item.

There can be no "we only list the loa's or auction loa's on preview items where bidding isn't allowed yet."

So what is the real excuse on why they do this?

What do you think Chris? Williams or Ivy, doesn't matter.

Third photo is an Operation Bullpen of an Ali/Chamberlain signed piece similar to what they offered. They actually offered two of them a couple of months apart, and they took one down when I alerted them to it the first time, and they took the other one down by themselves when the "real" auction loa's came to look at it, but both had the initial auction loa's listed when no one had looked at them yet, but open for internet bidding of course, just like the glove.

Both PSA and JSA hasn't certed this type of Operation Bullpen signature forever as long as i can tell as I can't find one anywhere with their full certs. They know this one is no good. They wouldn't precertify it. Every alert boxing collector knows of this type of John Olsen autograph.

So how is a reasonable, average collector suppose to know when an item has one of these 'not yet' type of precertifications or loa's.

Is it when the item is live? only on preview items? Just where is this information posted so we know? How will anyone know that the item has not been seen by the authenticator yet, but then has 'switched over' to being a real precertification or auction loa?

Very confusing indeed. We have to go by what the listing says. The deal between the auction house and the authenticator is up to them. But you have to go by what you see.