[ctownboy]

If people are having problems with Tony LaRussa because of his players using PED's then Dusty "toothpick" Baker is a joke.

If it is true that Barry Bonds started using steroids after the 1998 season (because he thought McGwire and Sosa were lesser players than him and he hated the publicity and adulation their Home Run chase brought them) and I think it is true then you HAVE to break toothpick's Managerial career down into three phases

1) Bonds pre-steroids (1993 - 1998)

2) Bonds on steroids but before testing began (1999 - 2004)

3) MLB after the PED rules came into being and harsher penalties were put into place for the players who failed the drug tests. (2005 - 2010).

1) Pre-steroid Bonds.

If you look at Baker's record from 1993 to 1998, you see he had three winning seasons and three losing seasons as Manager. This, even though, he had a young-ish Bonds AND the Giants had one of the highest payrolls in the NL each and every year. Included in this period was 1996 where Baker managed the Giants to not only last place in the NL West but also the second WORST record in the entire NL.

During those six seasons, his record was 472 and 436, a .520 Winning Percentage. His record, however, was GREATLY helped out by the 1993 season where the team went 103 - 59, a .636 WP and Bonds won the MVP Award. The Giants went to the Post Season one time during those six seasons, (1997) where they lost to the Marlins in the first round.

2) Bonds on steroids

If you look at Baker's record from 1999 - 2002, the Giants were 368 - 279, a .569 Winning Percentage. During this time they went to the Post Season in 2000, where they lost to the Mets in the first round and 2002 when they lost to the Angels in the World Series.

After that year, for some reason, he was NOT brought back as Manager. That was the first time, as far as I can remember, that a Manager took a team to the World Series one year and was NOT back as their Manager the next year. The last time that happened was in the 1920's when, I think, Rogers Hornsby was a player - Manager and took his team to the World Series and then was traded to another team before the next season started. Of course, I could be forgetting about George Steinbrenner firing somebody back in the late 1970's or early 1980's after they took the Yankees to the World Series.

Anyway, Baker went to the Cubs in 2003 where they finished with a 88 - 74 record and lost to the Marlins in the NL Championship. In 2004, the Cubs went 89 - 73.

So, overall, Baker's teams went a combined 545 - 426 (a .561 WP) from the first year Bonds started using steroids to when MLB instituted the drug testing policy and the harsher penalties for players failing the tests. During those six seasons, his teams never had a losing record and went to the Post Season three times.

3) Post PED testing.

From 2005 - 2010, Baker's record with the Cubs and Reds was 388 - 422 (a .479 WP). His teams only had one winning season and that was 2010 when the Reds went to the Post Season and lost to the Phillies in the first round.

The Cubs in 2005 and 2006 had some of the highest team payrolls in the NL each year but, once again, Baker led the 2006 team to not only a last place finish but also the worst record in all of the NL.

So, to rehash, pre-Bonds steroids; three winning seasons, three losing seasons and one Post Season appearance. Bonds on steroids and before the PED testing, six winning seasons, no losing seasons and three trips to the Post Season.

After PED testing, one winning season, five losing seasons and one Post Season appearance.

For those that don't like Joe Torre, Tony LaRussa or Bobby Cox and think their success is mostly due to high team payrolls and players using steroids, those three have NOTHING on Baker.

Even WITH teams that had high payrolls and players on steroids, Baker's teams weren't going to the Post Season every year (as Torres' Yankees and Coxs' Braves were) and he certainly didn't win a World Series (as Torre, Cox and LaRussa did).

Furthermore, Torre, Cox and LaRussa had success AFTER PED testing began whereas Baker has NOT.

So ANY talk of Baker going into the Hall of Fame as a Manager is a complete and utter joke.

David