[FrankWakefield]

Hey there...

With great self-restraint, and with an attempt to not unduly malign such folks, let me say to you that I personally have little faith in on-line card pricing and in professionally graded cards. There are cards out there that I don't know much about. I think I do have a fair understanding of some card series. I'm able to differentiate and be aware of which sets I know a bit about. For those sets, it seems to me that the 'professionals' and the on line folks get things misidentified, misstated, or outright screwed up. What troubles me is that some folks blindly believe the slab slips and websites, instead of some old geezer who's suggesting differently.

I don't know all there is to be known about the Old Mill red border cards. Their complexity has yet to be fathomed. It is way more complicated than 640 cards in 8 series, the higher series more difficult, with Jackson and Stengel being the tough ones. The cards weren't issued all at once. The cards in each particular series weren't all issued all at once. It is a mess waiting to be understood.

I think the Birmingham Wagner and the Mobile Wagner are 2 different guys, an outfielder and a pitcher. Ivor won 91 games over 12 seasons, he never made it to the majors, he was close with Columbus in 1903, then he was with 2 Southern League teams, Birmingham and New Orleans at the end of his career. He was 19-8 with the New Orleans Pelicans in 1912, then he pitched a few games for the Troy Trojans of the New York State League in 1913, his last year in professional baseball. Otto Wagner was on that 1913 Troy team, too, hitting .297 in 138 games. He appeared in 1567 games over 13 seasons, with a career average of .262. But for pitching in one game in 1906, he was an outfielder.

Maybe they were brothers, or relatives. They were in the same league in 1910, I think they were both with the Binghamton Bingoes at the same time in 1905, and they were definitely with Troy in 1913.

I don't think one card is the variation of the other.

I'm glad you asked about it!!! The more of this that gets aired out, the more folks will understand T210s.