Posted By:
T206Collector"One last point is many collectors raise their bid because they think they are competing against a fellow collector-- a collector who is simultaneously expressing his valuation opinion for the item-- not a phantom pseudo bid."
I would never bid this way, but even if I did, you voluntarily moved to a higher price point. You can never assume, even in a free market, that that bidder will be there next month when you try to sell.
"Many people also value a rare item by looking to see what other fellow collectors are bidding, not a made-up pseudo bid from a collector that doesn't exist."
Again, your legitimate fellow collector may not be there next month either.
"Collectors regularly use what other honest collectors bid and are willing to pay to help determine value and pricing."
Agreed, but I use final sale price, which could be more accurate in a shilled world. Wouldn't you rather know what the top bidder was most willing to pay, as opposed to what he wound up paying?
"After all, it is these same fellow collectors who will be the potential buyers if one wins and resells the item If a collector wins a an item for $1,000 (shill bid underbidder $950), then finds out the next highest real collector bid was at $490, you bet he will feel cheated."
I understand your point, but again think it irrational to assume that the next highest real collector would ever return to bid on that item.
"Also realize that for many of those horrible fake T206s and such, the fraudulent seller will use multiple shillers to get the price fake high so it appears that there's lots of bidder interest in this convincing others that the card is legitimate. This shills are almost like advertising. Many shillers will raise the bid real high in the hope there's one sucker bidder who will top it at the end. If there isn't the sucker bidder, the scammer will relist it and try again. Thus, in an ongoing shilled auction, the high bid may be $500 when highest bid from a real bidder is only $20 or there are no bids from a real bidder."
Yes, there are suckers born every minute -- many of them are bidding on Wagners on ebay and I have very little sympathy for them. To the extent shilling is being used to make fakes look more real, the issue is really in the sale of the fake, not the advertising done to promote it.
"What you may calculate as the market value of the card may be derived from shilled numbers."
If Person A pay is always willing to pay $5,000 for a card that no other person is willing to pay more than $1,000 for, then that card will never show $5,000 as the true value, unless that card is shilled. If you owned that card and were considering selling, you'd think $1,000 was a fair price, but you'd kick yourself to learn that someone was willing to give you $5,000 for that card.
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