Posted By:
MikeUThe PSA brand is a very powerfull. However, it is not a stretch to think that all of the current grading companies may not exist in 30 years. So personally, I think it is more important to use someone you trust the most, as you likely will have to cross your cards in 20, 30 or 40 years.
Branding is very important in the short term, I think there are several historical examples of strong brands that the general public thought at one time were infallable. GM, Ford, IBM, Motorola, AT&T and coutless others were untouchable kings at one time.
As for the strenght of PSA's brand, I thought I would provide some past quotes from Mr. Crandell regarding PSA.
1. With GAI soon to have its registry up and running, one of the premeir if not the premeir graded vintage baseball card collections is being crossed over in its entirety from PSA to GAI. This may occur over time but there appears to be no doubt that it will happen. I know why he is doing it(did anyone whisper grading) but I will let him say if he so chooses--great job Joe Orlando--with that winning customer service attitude it certainly won't be the last...
2. A year or two ago I attempted to make the argument to Michael and Greg that altered cards finding their way into PSA holders was a rare occurance--I have a different view now.
3. My first would be If I turn out to be one of your biggest customers and biggest owners of sgc cards am I subject to getting attacked and insulted by the president of your company and would he openly lie in print to try to get support of board members.? If the answer is no, then sgc is already one step ahead.
4. Personal relationships in the hobby mean a lot and Rocchi/Baker are close to a lot of the veteran dealers and collectors. Don't know any that are close to Joe Orlando.
5. While its true that PSA's actions and in particular Joe Orlando's actions have made me a free agent. Mike, Steve and Danny are all friends of mine and unquestionably they have the best grading in the business--I am watching to see how some other things unfold there.
6. Unfortunately yours is a typical experience at PSA. They lost their best two graders to GAI, let two other experienced graders go and according to insiders instituted a one-and-out policy where one only one grader looks at a card before it is slabbed. GAI has Mike Baker--the best grader in the business along with 3 other experienced ex-PSA graders. For accuracy of grading, I don't think its close.
7. Notice that Frank just said--hey Davalillo was right on the fact there wasn't much knowledge among the posters on more than one set. Or would you rather debate PSA's performance on the Rose card...or how wonderful the smr is...or why Dmitri is sending the vast majority of his cards to GAI...or the WIWAG scandal...or why PSA is laying off experienced graders...or the "one and out" policy at PSA. Whoops, thats right--those are facts--better to just slam Davalillo thsn say something thoughtful.
8. My goal has been 100 vintage or semi-vintage(meaning 1960s and earlier in psa 8 or better. Given the deterioration in psa, I will modify that and say 100 vintage sets in psa 8 or better, gai 8 or better or sgc 88 or better.
9. Very very impressive. And I would not have to put up with the president calling me a lowlife or a pos. For those interested in this story, e-mail me privately.
10. In a development that I am extremely disappointed about, my friend Dave Jacobs(the largest owner of psa cards in the world--I used to think I was) is liquidating his collection. Dave was/is a true collector and has rapidly built some very impressive sets.
Using Dave's own words, the reason he is doing this is PSA's customer service. I have highlighted how truly horrific PSA's customer service is in recent posts but Dave says it well when he says "we are constantly being swept under the rug" and the way the treat laymen is a tragedy at best" and "their customer service stinks".
Greg, MW and others have gone into considerable detail about the many problems of psa--many of which I agree with. The prez will no doubt rationalize this by saying who cares--the people on the boards are less that 1% of our business. And because of his attitude, a first class collector is gone from the business...and I'm sad about it...and I blame Joe Orlando.
11. Getting back to my main point earlier--PSA's horrific customer service--I urge all of you to read my friend David Vargha's post today on the PSA Set Registry message board(that is if it isn't taken down). PSA had no more loyal customer than David--just read about how he has been treated by PSA. If you are in the customer service business, you just cannot keep treating your customers with disdain or soon they will be ex-customers.
12. 1)First and foremost, the number of serious collectors and major dealers who are angry at PSA and in particular Joe Orlando continues to grow. Just this week I spoke to two of the best known dealers in the business who for different reasons but what I would call it inconsistent grading and arrogant response by the PSA Prez are beside themselves and resolving to give more of the business to others. Every time I go to a show, as a proportion of total graded cards I see more GAI and SGC cards.
On the other hand, Rocchi/Baker/Fisher of GAI are very personable who have been the face of PSA for years--people want to do business with these guys. I am scheduled to meet SGC management/graders soon and maybe I will feel just as good about them--we'll see. I would represent that many major collectors are now feeling the same way.
2)Consistency of grading. Mike Baker is widely thought of as the best grader in the business. The SGC folks are also highly thought of. With PSA, they have lost or let go experienced graders and it has been reported that in most cases that only one grader looks at a card before it is slabbed with the other person a verifier who looks at the card post-slabbing. Are we really supposed to believe that many cards actually are taken out of their slabs after a verifier looks at them.
3)Lets see what happens after GAI issues the registry and after their dealer meeting in Mexico. It has been long delayed but this could be something which accelerates the shift to GAI.
4)Baker/Rocchi are owners and have a huge vested interest in GAI's success. Joe Orlando is an employee.
People want to do business with people they like--its simple. I am much more inclined to do business with a dealer if I like him personally, everything else being roughly equal. With everything else becoming "equaller" every day, this will become an increasingly important issue. Yes--there is something called customer service.
12. I disagree--there is no harm in speculating. Also it was very helpful when information came out on how many graders psa used to have that made $100,000 or more per year and how many they have that make that now. It showed how they have replaced a lot of experienced graders with new graders.
It was one of the few threads on the psa boards that I bothered to open.
13. Seems like PSA is running scared. Whether its the Rose controversy, WIWAG scandal or something as inocuous as grader salaries, PSA is furiously taking down threads--sometimes as soon as they go up. This leaves such scintillating topics such as Joe Orlando asking for articles...but then saying since he is such a busy man do not respond on the message boards because he hardly has enough time to look at them. I hardly recognize many of the names of the posters on the psa boards these days.
14. The volume of e-mails I am getting from disaffected PSA collectors is staggering--I honestly believe the intelligent ones are seeing the light. More starting to submit to GAI--hopefully this will spread to SGC. Lot of them beginning to criticize the psa prez--but hey the prez told them that they are just 1% of his business and he could give a flying f about them and what they think. Also getting some calls from some national dealers who are sounding concerned. Its starting to get interesting.
15. Nothing Joe Orlando says or does surprises me any more. I have been on the west coast all week. Had dinner with Rocchi/Baker/Fisher and some psa collectors. Story I have heard from two dealers is that Orlando called me a lowlife- pos at Las Vegas summit.
16. Orlando acknowledging his own company's press release that MW1 brought to everyones attention. And then saying don't worry--the virtually useless SMR will continue in its present form--hooray for the PSA PREZ.
17. I have never seen a president of a company quite like Joe Orlando in my life.
Really not worth spending a lot of time on because if he is going to lie and distort thr truth and the board members with their lips closely placed next to Joe's rear all respond oh thank you so much Joe in unison then whats the use.
But Joe there is a funny thing called the truth that you conveniently choose to ignore.
1)I have a pro-PSA agenda. As a large number of serious collectors on the boards have pointed out, I have been trying to make PSA a better company by pointing out all the things you could do better. You not only do not listen--you treat it as a personal attack.
2)")Disrespectful to PSA employees and people on the boards"--this is incredible--I get slammed by your lapdogs who make up all kinds of crazy allegations and I am disrespectful for raising issues. If you had any guts you would throw them off the boards.
3)Joe knows that my stories and sources are real. He knows I know a lot of dealers, major collectors, and he knows I know the competition. Sad he has to lie.
4)This is obviously a person who is in over his head in the job.
Thanks to all the serious collectors who have defended me on the boards and with your personal e-mails--it is truly an impressive list. I appreciate your kind words. For the people with multiple identities on the boards and those who are on just to cause trouble, you got your wish. But as the serious collectors have repeatedly pointed out the boards will be a far less interesting place and collectors will be far less informed about what is really going on.
Joe has told me how much he appreciates my business and my ideas by his actions.
18. I want psa to be a better company. I would love to continue to use psa for all my grading. But there is this little teensy weensy problem called grading accuracy that they have--misgrading and alterted cards that in my opinion is becoming a greater problem.
19. I also have no respect for Joe Orlando--if you read his comments more than anything he is critical of me not the two mentioned above and the trolls. That is simply unbelievable to me. And that he is either giving very misleading answers or outright lieing is also too much to take.
20. I honestly view PSA as the 3rd best grading company currently in terms of quality of grading.
21. I am the largest owner of psa-graded cards in the country(colse to 20,000) and am attempting to build over 100 vintage pre-war and post-war sets in baseball, football, basketball and hockey in psa 8 or better. Some 80% of my collection is baseball. Most cards(over 15,000) I have submitted myself--the others I have bought from a variety of psa dealers. I also try to upgrade any card that comes back from psa in less than a 8.
I have recently become quite disenchanted with PSA and after being a regular poster on their message boards for the past 18 months, have made the decision to stop posting.
Below is a brief summary of some of my views. I could go into any of these in more detail in the future.
1)The PSA president has to be the most customer unfriendly person I have ever seen running a company. My job is to analyze different companies in different businesses and I spend a lot of my time talking with senior managements. Because I am a large customer, I asked him to do certain favors for me--more clerical things--nothing like reexamine a card. Not only was I rudely turned down but then I was insulted. I have shown his comments to other substantial collectors I know and they were stunned. Maybe spending close to $100,000 on grading fees does not make me their biggest customer but I was appalled.
2)The trial balloon that PSA sent out about half grades was a slap in the face to their longstanding customers. Only because it was leaked that they were asking dealers about it, did they admit it. If it was not for the nearly unanimous outcry on the message boards it almost certainly would have happened. I think the president of PSA knew this(how could he have not) but was pressured by management of Collectors Universe to do this
3)I am losing a little confidence in Psa 's grading. Certain vintage cards I see in holders sold by certain dealers look suspicious to me. All I am suggesting is that certain dealers will continue to submit high-end trimmed cards until they grade.
4)The pricing of vintage sportscards in SMR is rapidly becoming irrelevant. The amazing thing is when this is pointed out to the president he defends it and says e-mail suggested changes. He actually wants the collectors to do his price guide. When I point out that he should take the responsibility for putting out a publication with accurate prices he gets angry and defensive. It is obvious he is paying no attention to ebay or even major auctions.
5)Making membership manmdatory and charging you before you can submit cards is not a good business decision.
All of these posts were made on the SGC boards about 2 years ago. In the last two years has:
1. Joe Orlando become and honest and truthfull person?
2. Customer Service greatly improved?
3. Grading consistency greatly improved?
4. SMR greatly improved?
5. Catching alterations and errors are greatly reduced?
I think the answer is no. The only thing that has changed is:
1. PSA let Jim speak at a National luncheon.
2. PSA made Jim a HOF'er collector.
Talk about brand strenght. When you can make a very sucesfful person ignore may negative facts by throwing them a little a food for their ego and everything is back to solid. I would love to bottle that sort of brand strenght.