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Posted By: Matt

Tim - I don't think anyone is arguing here (although they may disagree) that Ryan was or wasn't better then Grove. The argument is whether Ryan is over-rated and put now in concrete terms, whether he is one of the top 20 pitchers of all-time. Saying Lefty Grove was better doesn't add to the debate, unless of course, you believe that Grove was the 20th best pitcher of all-time.