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Posted By: Scott Elkins

Too many attacks. Regarding David Rudd's statement above about people not knowing what to look for in a real T206 regarding these 1950's reprints - is that a blanket statement David? If so, you would be referring to Mr. Heitman not knowing what to look for in a real T206. Again, I doubt anyone in the Hobby has handled more raw T206's and done as much research as Mr. Heitman has done. Again, I have seen two of these 1950's reprints. One was on ebay in the early days - the seller was honest and selling it as such - the bidding still went into the high four figures back then. I remember when the bidding was over $7k, I really took a close look at the enlarged scans and said to myself "with knowledgeable people bidding on this card, and it looking so real, I believe this seller might have a real Wagner and doesn't really know what he owns". Well, after exchanging e-mails with the seller, I realized he was knowledgeable and knew exactly what he had - as he acquired it in the 1950's as such and told me the story about these 1950's reprints with different - Piedmont backs (as late as Lipset's Encyclopedia, the Wagner was only known with a SC 150 back). Also, in 1987, I was at a card shope in Gatlinburg, TN and the owner had a display with one of these 50's reprints and a real SC 150 Wagner. I was speaking with him about the difference and he said over 90% of the people who tried to guess which was real or fake were wrong. He then showed me the backs - one was a Piedmont and one a SC 150 and told me that real Wagners would only have a SC 150 back, as that was the only cigarettes the cards were issued in.

Anyway, I have spoken via e-mail with Joe about this. Joe seems to know all about these reprints and has some great knowledge and information. Also, with Bill Heitman talking on this very board several weeks ago about these reprints and even stating that their is really NO WAY to tell that these are not real except for the "different backs" - like the Goudey #106 Durocher (which I have pics of if anyone would like to see it). Well, according to David Rudd, Bill Heitman, myself, Joe, nor anyone else who knows about these real looking 1950's reprints doesn't know how to spot a real T206. Personally, I have had tens of thousands of T206's over the years and I wouldn't doubt for one second that Bill Heitman has handled well into the six figures of T206's over his collecting career. Again, as Mr. Heitman stated - a lot of these people were printing cards at Goudey and Bowman factories, so they did not have to shell out all this money for the euquipment, inks, etc. This was NOT done to fool anyone, as that is why the backs WERE and ARE different. Also, a lot of these were printed up for Woody Gelman by some of his buddies at these factories.

I may not know much about printing or photographs David Rudd. However, I have been collecting and researching cards since 1978. I have been fooled in the past by a fake card and early on by some trimmed cards. I am not perfect. However, like I stated in another post, if I would have saved every book, magazine, catalog, etc. I have read and owned about this Hobby, I would need another home to store this material in. I still read about the Hobby every day and am still learning. I can tell you that I found out about these 1950's realistic reprints with different backs around a dozen years ago and it sounds like Mr. Heitman has known about them much longer. If you say these do NOT exist, you simply do not know what you are talking about from a Hobby standpoint!