Posted By:
jay behrensOk, here is what was saved of the previous thread. It was saved up to the point where the links got reposted. There were some other posts there, one by Leon which I think he wants permanently erased anyway 
but the gist of the whole thread is there. Most of what was lost was an echange between Charlie and Bcd that they can rehash if they like.
Here it is. It's a bit of mess with all the html code in it, but I was having a hard time deciphering usernames from it, so I left it as-is.
deleted, answers were good enough for me.
Jay
I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.
This message has been edited by sabrjay on Oct 21, 2006 1:25 AM
This message has been edited by sabrjay on Oct 21, 2006 1:00 AM
This message has been edited by sabrjay on Oct 21, 2006 12:47 AM
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"http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/post?messageid=1161404912" ¶Respond to
this message§áááAuthorReply HYPERLINK "paulcrstratton" ¶paulstratton§
paulstratton
(Login HYPERLINK "http://www.network54.com/Profile/smokeyjoewood"
¶smokeyjoewood§)drOctober 21 2006,á12:42 AMá
I didn't overlap them or anything but it looks like he cracked out high end cards and got
them bumped. What doctoring are you talking about?
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HYPERLINK "sabrjay@yahoo.com" ¶jay behrens§ jay behrens
(Login HYPERLINK "http://www.network54.com/Profile/sabrjay" ¶sabrjay§)Re: Man
on the Rock auctionsOctober 21 2006,á1:04 AMá
Look at the Young card. There is a crease in the upper left corner tha disappeared along
with the black spots on his arm. You can tell it's the same card by looking at the back.
Aligned the same the same stain appears in the D of "candy". You can also see where the
crease broke the black boarder and they didn't recolor that spot
Jay
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áá HYPERLINK "cbarokas42@yahoo.com" ¶Charlie Barokas§ Charlie
Barokas
(Login HYPERLINK "http://www.network54.com/Profile/MANONTHEROCK"
¶MANONTHEROCK§)Re: Man on the Rock auctionsOctober 21 2006,á1:09 AMá
Jay,
Thank you for giving me credit for having such a good eye for upgrades. Part of my
business is to by cards that look high-end for the grade and crack them out of their holder
and resubmit them in an attempt to get a higher grade.
I do not deny that all the examples you have shown are upgrades that I have gotten.
However, you forgot to show how many losers I have to go along with the winners.
I will say this one time. I have never trimmed, added or removed from a based card.
baseball card.
I have erased pencil or pen marks and or removed stains from cards.
I have nothing to hide. I am completely honest about the cards I crack out.
Please feel free to bring any example to the forefront that shows the card has been
trimmed or altered. You will not be able to find one.
The information that was provided to you, was generated from Greg Schwartz and Brian
Daniels.
This an attempt to defame and or hurt my business for their personal enjoyment.
I have contacted my attorney and we will monitor all allegations made in public forums.
Including mass emails and other general communication.
I have done nothing to Greg or Brian but be nice to them when others said they were
questionable individuals.
Brian has been emailing me as of late insulting me and trying to get me to engage him
and I refused to do so which I believe made him furious.
People who know me and the truth about the way I conduct business, know that I am
honest and have never trimmed or altered a card.
Some people may have had a problem with me in the past but that is life and I make many
honest mistakes. Many of which I have tried to rectify including you Jay.
Charlie
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HYPERLINK "sabrjay@yahoo.com" ¶jay behrens§ jay behrens
(Login HYPERLINK "http://www.network54.com/Profile/sabrjay" ¶sabrjay§)Re: Man
on the Rock auctionsOctober 21 2006,á1:19 AMá
If you don't alter cards, then what happened to that crease in the upper left corner of the
Young card? It is no longer there. The only way that could happen is that you either
doctored the card or the scan. Either way, it doesn't look good.
Jay
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HYPERLINK "Bicem@hotmail.com" ¶Jeff Prizner§ Jeff Prizner
(Login HYPERLINK "http://www.network54.com/Profile/Bicem" ¶Bicem§)Re: Man
on the Rock auctionsOctober 21 2006,á1:20 AMá
Jay,
I think the crease not showing up as well on the Young card is just a difference between
the two scans. Charlie calls out the crease in the description.
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HYPERLINK "jkrasner@maupintaylor.com" ¶JK§ JK
(Login HYPERLINK "http://www.network54.com/Profile/jkrasner2" ¶jkrasner2§)Re:
Man on the Rock auctionsOctober 21 2006,á1:20 AMá
I agree with Paul - all of the cards look like they were cracked and bumped up a grade. I
dont see any evidence they were trimmed. I still see the crease in the regraded young - I
just think Charlie's scan doesnt show it as clearly - that is probably because of the
brightness of the scan - tends to hide minor wrinkling/creasing. I have also seen several
cards in charlie's auctions that did not bump. For example, in his last auction he had a
beautiful e93 sgc 40 wagner that was sold by Hal on ebay. That card was crossed to a
PSA 3 (ie no bump at all). I am very familiar with that card - its a great card and I have no
doubt that had someone wanted to, it could have been trimmed and bumped up
significantly - it wasnt.
This message has been edited by jkrasner2 on Oct 21, 2006 1:25 AM
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ááCharlie Barokas
(Login HYPERLINK "http://www.network54.com/Profile/MANONTHEROCK"
¶MANONTHEROCK§)Re: Man on the Rock auctionsOctober 21 2006,á1:24 AMá
Lastly,
If I was really guilty of something unscrupulous why would I run auctions and stand
behind the cards?
Why not do what Greg admitted doing? Giving cards anonomously to auction houses in
order to not have to stand behind the card?
If he was so proud of the Kid Eberfeld? Why did he not just sell it under his own name on
ebay and save the 17.5%?
The people in this hobby that collectors need to worry about are those people who alter
cards and then in bulk give them to auction houses to lauder themselves from the card.
I don't give many cards to auction houses because I am not ashamed of any of the cards I
sell and would by any of them back. Because I do not do anything to the card that is
consider alteration.
I know there is a group of purist our their that will condemn me for erasing pencil or pen
or removing a stain. I accept their opinion but I do not agree with it.
The example is, if you own an all original 57 Chevy and you take is out for a spin and a
bird ****s on it, do you remove the **** or do you put it back in the garage with the bird
**** on it?
Charlie
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áá HYPERLINK "cbarokas42@yahoo.com" ¶Charlie Barokas§ Charlie
Barokas
(Login HYPERLINK "http://www.network54.com/Profile/MANONTHEROCK"
¶MANONTHEROCK§)Re: Man on the Rock auctionsOctober 21 2006,á1:28 AMá
Jay,
SGC is much tougher on corner creases than PSA. Josh is correct the crease is still there, I
disclose it in the auction. PSA just did not view the crease as enough to knock the card
down to VG.
It is true that all three of the big three have different nuances to the way they grade the
same thing and as a dealer who is trying to feed his family, he must take advantage of the
difference. I think many collectors do the same.
What Greg and Brian have done is also unfair to my consignors. Over 70% of the cards in
my auciton are consignments. It is a shame that someone who consigned to me would get
hurt by this.
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HYPERLINK "cardknowledge@earthlink.net" ¶BcDaniels§ BcDaniels
(Login HYPERLINK "http://www.network54.com/Profile/B.C.Daniels"
¶B.C.Daniels§)Charlie...pleaseOctober 21 2006,á1:32 AMá
You are kidding yourself! "
"
1) I e-mailed you to tease you. If not for you posting here I would not even involve
myself. Your "belief" I am furious is nonsense. But you are clearly a liar. Tomorrow, I
will expose your comments about washing, cleaning and pulling corners and creases out
of cards you stupidly stated PUBLICALLY at the Hollywood Park show about two years
ago to "Adrian" in front of several people. Funny how after I sent you a couple of links to
your "Anthony932006" yesterday then instantly you then tried to CALL me on the phone
several times to discuss what you would NOT put in e-mails!
This then was followed up by some "pleasant" e-mails and now youĆre accusing me of
something I knew about all along and yet had nothing to do with! Maybe you should use
your pee brain to trace the IP of the letter sent around and you'll figure out where and who
it came from! You got caught AGAIN with your pants down Charlie and want to
circumvent your immoral activities on me!!!!
I am not a dealer Charlie, I have a job maybe you could explain what motives I would
have in this??? You got it-none! I sent you my B-18 blankets to sell through the auction
and you think I have some motive for exposing your wanton greed??. Tell me then
Charlie, what would my motive be???
You purchased that CY Young card from LEON***
Then you removed the crease, cleaned it and resubmitted it! The scans are obvious!
Wonder what Leon is going to say when he wakes up and sees that card Charlie! How
will you blame this on me? You did the same thing with a board members card I could
post. Privatizing your handles and changing the handles every 30 days as you do wonĆt
stop the people you buy from in sharing these things Charlie. It just makes you look as
shady as you are!
You should have kept your mouth shut at the Hollywood park show. You never know
who is looking at your cards as you are describing what you did to them! I'll stand by that
fact Charlie! There are other people who heard you, deny it and they might just come on
here and infuriate YOU! You dug your own hole don't even mention me in pretending I
am down there with you. Send back my B-18 blankets pronto!
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áá HYPERLINK "cbarokas42@yahoo.com" ¶Charlie Barokas§ Charlie
Barokas
(Login HYPERLINK "http://www.network54.com/Profile/MANONTHEROCK"
¶MANONTHEROCK§)Re: Leon, delte this pleaseOctober 21 2006,á1:39 AMá
Brian,
You must be drunk? I have never seen you at Hollywood park in my life.
Maybe you should read the description, the crease is still on the card and I disclosed in
the description.
Brian, don't hate me for this but you are the craziest most whacked out individual I have
ever met. You are a compulsive liar.
You never fought in the Octagon.
You never stormed a mountain in the Grenada conflict.
You do not own 80,000 caramel cards.
You do not own a Gym.
I could go on and on.
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HYPERLINK "cardknowledge@earthlink.net" ¶Anonymous§ Anonymous
(Login HYPERLINK "http://www.network54.com/Profile/B.C.Daniels"
¶B.C.Daniels§)Re: Leon, delte this pleaseOctober 21 2006,á1:44 AMá
Brian,
You must be drunk?
I DO NOT DRINK! INCLUDEPICTURE
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I have never seen you at Hollywood park in my life.
YOU DID NOT KNOW ME THEN AS I ONLY MET YOU FORMALLY LAST YEAR
AT THE SAN FRANCISCO SHOW! INCLUDEPICTURE
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Maybe you should read the description, the crease is still on the card and I disclosed in
the description.
Brian, don't hate me for this but you are the craziest most whacked out individual I have
ever met. You are a compulsive liar.
CHARLIE YOU;LL DENY IT BUT IF YOU CALL ME AGAIN AND CALL ME THE
THINGS YOU DID AT 10;40 PM MY TIME ( ITS LOGGED IN MY PHONE***) I
WILL FILE A POLICE REPORT ON YOU!
You never fought in the Octagon.
You never stormed a mountain in the Grenada conflict.
You do not own 80,000 caramel cards.
You do not own a Gym.
I could go on and on.
YOU COULD BUT:
A) WHO SAID I OWNED A GYM?
2) IT IS MERELY A CIRCUMVENTIVE TACTIC TO DENY AND DEFLECT THE
OBVIOUS.
I DECIED I AM GOING TO CALL THE POLICE RIGHT NOW JUST TO NOTE IT
ON FILE AND HAVE THEM CONFIRM YOU JUST CALLED ME.
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áá HYPERLINK "cbarokas42@yahoo.com" ¶Charlie Barokas§ Charlie
Barokas
(Login HYPERLINK "http://www.network54.com/Profile/MANONTHEROCK"
¶MANONTHEROCK§)Gregs response via email to meOctober 21 2006,á1:46 AMá
You are a stupid **** and you will pay. First you out my buying id
to people because you thought I was the one responsible for giving
people info about you. Who the **** do you think you are? I will
crush your business you stupid ****. I have had it with you ripping
into me without provocation. Wanna see your auction business go down
the drain? Watch.
Now go **** yourself ****head.
Greg Schwartz
Bottom of the Ninth
1910 Montana Avenue
Santa Monica, CA 90403
310-829-5937
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Bottom of the Ninth
(Login HYPERLINK "http://www.network54.com/Profile/BOTN" ¶BOTN§)Re: Leon,
delte this pleaseOctober 21 2006,á1:53 AMá
If you have nothing to be ashamed of then why start attacking me? Please explain to us
how these cards bumped two grades after you bought them? For someone who is
threatening legal remedies why start attacking innocent people? Does not make a good
case for you.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160031935644
http://www.manontherock.com/site/bid/bidplace.asp?itemid=5034
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130019001385
http://www.manontherock.com/site/bid/bidplace.asp?itemid=5008
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200029196072
http://www.manontherock.com/site/bid/bidplace.asp?itemid=5021
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280018174907
http://www.manontherock.com/site/bid/bidplace.asp?itemid=5026
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I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.