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Posted By: Ryan Christoff

John,

Believe it or not, many people actually understand the points you are trying to get across in your posts. They are not as complex as you think. Make room for the possibility that some of us might happen to disagree with you.

To be clear, my understanding of your main point is that there isn't an obvious 400 point difference between Sutter and Wetteland. My understading is also that you are not in any way saying that Wetteland should be a HOFer, only that there isn't as big of a difference between the two as the HOF voting would make it seem. Am I more or less accurate in my understanding of your point?

Either way, I disagree with it. Sutter and Wetteland are only comparable in that they were both relief pitchers. Wetteland was good, but never approached greatness. Sutter did. Maybe not for as long as many would like to see out of a HOFer, but he wasn't a fluke or one-hit wonder.

You said you'd take Wetteland's career over Sutter's and claim that it's common sense. What??? Bruce Sutter has just as many World Series rings as Wetteland. He was better in every possible way. There is no comparison. Wetteland SHOULD get 400 fewer votes than Sutter because he shouldn't even get one. And please note the absence of terms like "forkball" and "split-fingered fastball" from my post.

Your point about seasons where a player got MVP votes holds no weight at all. When you try to compare Wetteland having 4 seasons with MVP votes to Sutter's 6, you lose some credibility. That's an obviously misleading statement that, on the surface, makes them seem similar. Hmmm, 4 for Wetteland, 6 for Sutter, pretty similar, right? Sorry. That's like saying Tony Gwynn and Babe Ruth were pretty equivalent home run hitters since Gwynn hit home runs in 20 different seasons compared to 21 for Ruth. Sometimes one can make the numbers fit whatever argument one is trying to make. But let's take a closer look at the numbers in the Sutter vs. Wetteland MVP voting:

Wetteland's MVP votes:

1992 - 1 of 336 possible points (20th - 4th among pitchers, 2nd among relievers)
1993 - 1 of 392 possible points (24th - 8th among pitchers, 4th among relievers)
1996 - 4 of 392 possible points (19th - 2nd among pitchers, 1st among relievers)
1998 - 3 of 392 possible points (16th - 3rd among pitchers, 2nd among relievers)

Sutter's MVP votes:

1977 - 68 of 336 possible points (7th - 2nd among pitchers, 1st among relievers)
1978 - 5 of 336 possible points (20th - 7th among pitchers, 2nd among relievers)
1979 - 69 of 336 possible points (7th - 2nd among pitchers, 1st among relievers)
1981 - 59 of 336 possible points (8th - 2nd among pitchers, 1st among relievers)
1982 - 134 of 336 possible points (5th - 1st among pitchers, 1st among relievers)
1984 - 67 of 336 possible points (6th - 2nd among pitchers, 1st among relievers)

Wetteland received a total of 9 points out of a possible 1,512. That's about .6%.
Sutter received a total of 402 points out of a possible 2,016. That's about 20%.

So to summarize:

Bruce Sutter: 402 MVP points, 400 HOF votes.
John Wetteland: 9 MVP points, 4 HOF votes.

I guess you might be right. Wetteland should have gotten 9 votes instead of 4.

Oh, and of Dave Parker, Steve Garvey, Juan Gonzalez, Albert Belle, Jim Rice, Vern Stephens, Pedro Guerrero, Cecil Cooper, Dan Quisenberry and Al Oliver, how many were pitchers? One. Relievers? One. Do another list like that one, but include only pitchers. Then do one with only relievers. You will find Sutter near the top.

Incidentally, Quisenberry is Hall-worthy, in my opinion, and will probably get some respect from the veteran's committee. Who knows if he'll ever get in, but he is the closest to Gossage and Sutter, for me. Many will disagree with me, but I'm all for Quiz in the Hall.

I've also never been able to understand the lack of love for Al Oliver. Why isn't everyone on the Bert Blyleven bandwagon also on the Al Oliver bandwagon? 2,700+ hits with a .303 career average. Hell, Oliver had 10 of John's "seasons receiving MVP votes".

Gossage will get in, Rice will get in, Dawson will get in. Like Sutter, those 3 are deserving. I'm on the fence about some of the others. And don't get me started about Steve Garvey receiving twice as many votes as Don Mattingly.

-Ryan

P.S. I should mention that I'm a big Wetteland fan as he was on the mound for perhaps my greatest moment as a sports fan on October 26th, 1996.