Posted By:
leonOK guys and girl..I spoke with Anne on the phone again.....we had the wrong ebay auction for this issue. It was really:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5162533171
and we still thought this E135 was a reprint. We also had a thread about it......the whole issue is that Dr.Darren never got back with Anne for her to give a refund....she said he wrote very upset emails and said he was sending it in to be graded and he never got back to her. She figured, like anyone, that the card got graded and all was well. That's why she contacted the board and myself about removing the old thread......She also admitted that her son initially said they would not give a refund but she reprimanded him and said that of course they would, it the card was not good. She got this card from a Baltimore collector by the name of Bob Flitter. She said he sets up at shows in Chantilly Va and Arundel (sp?) Mills, if anyone might know him. SO the real story is does anyone know where Dr. Darren is? Did he maybe take a break from the hobby after all of this? regards all
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Ebay seller armee48
February 9 2005 at 2:12 PM Darren J. Duet (Login drdduet)
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I purchased an E135 Walter Johnson from armee48 on ebay recently using BIN for $400. I received the card on 2/7/05 and after looking at it I'm convinced it's a fake. It's Ebay item #5162533171.
I've notified the seller and asked for a refund upon return of the card and he replied, "i do not give refunds."
My next course of action is to send it off to SGC and if they agree that it is fake I'll press charges of fraud. I have saved the email correspondence in which the seller assures of the cards authenticity and condition prior to my purchase. I also have the listing in print and on file.
I will scan the card in tonight when I get home.
Any help or advice will be appreciated.
Darren
[edited to add link]
This message has been edited by bcornell on Feb 9, 2005 3:00 PM
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Glenn
(Login gscheyd) Re: Ebay seller armee48 February 9 2005, 2:14 PM
Did you use PayPal?
davidcycleback
(Login davidcycleback) Re: Ebay seller armee48 February 9 2005, 2:22 PM
If it gets to you going through the serious motions of pressing charges, you will more than likely get a refund right away. People don't like the thought of legal proceedings against them, especially when they know they are in the wrong.
"I don't give refunds" is a bogus and irrelevant statement. If you sell a fake, you give a refund. It's known as the law.
Darren J. Duet
(Login drdduet) Paypal February 9 2005, 2:40 PM
Yes I did use paypal.
leon
(Premier Login leonl) Darren February 9 2005, 2:46 PM
For what it's worth I looked at the auction too and the artificial looking aging is a big concern. I am positive by holding it I could tell if it were real. If you have the card now, and lay it flat in your hand, you should see uneven gloss on it. My guess is this card will feel "rough" too which is not the way a card from 1917 should feel. It should feel smooth to the touch. This seller has a lot of good feeback and I would be fairly sure if you press the legal issue it won't make it to court. If it's a fake, and the scan looks that way, and was sold as an original (which it was), then that is fraud. Fraud over the internet is a federal crime. You might give a link to this forum and see what happens. regards...and a link...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5162533171
davidcycleback
(Login davidcycleback) Remember, when the seller of a forgery or fraud says February 9 2005, 2:54 PM
"I don't guarantee the authenticity" or "I don't give refunds," the correct response is:
"Sure you do. And I bet the judge would agree with me."
Glenn
(Login gscheyd) Re: Ebay seller armee48 February 9 2005, 3:13 PM
The reason I ask about PayPal is that their dispute resolution process can only be set in motion within 30 days of payment. I found that out the hard way. If you paid with a credit card, you can go through your credit card company, but otherwise you may want to notify PayPal so they can begin an invesitagtion, and you'll have to do that within the next few weeks. In other words, don't wait for the card to come back from SGC.
todd (nolemmings)
(Login taslegal) Re: Ebay seller armee48 February 9 2005, 3:57 PM
The card looks fake all the way around to me. It looks too white--all of the e135s I've owned and the vast majority of what I've seen are creamier colored. Leon's right about holding it in your hand to check, although I have a reprint set where the gloss is even. That set carries a reprint line in the bottom right corner of the reverse--does your card show erasure there?
I'd try the paypal route first. For one thing, it's not entirely accurate to claim fraud just because the card is fake or reprinted. It's misrepresentation, but the key is whether he knew it was fake and advertised it othwerwise anyway. If not, you could still assert a civil claim for negligent misrepresentation or breach of implied warranty, but you won't get anywhere with a criminal claim. Also, my experience at least in AZ is that no law enforcement agency is going to spend much (or any) time chasing down a few hundred dollar loss, unless you can show them (rather convincingly) that there's a pattern of criminal activity and not isolated conduct.
Good luck!
leon
(Premier Login leonl) Hey Todd February 9 2005, 4:51 PM
No biggie....but I had said it should be "uneven" not even.....so far in my short addicted career I haven't seen faked uneven toning that looked real....sort of like fake granite....it looks fake and is "even"....(man made)....regards
Darren J. Duet
(Login drdduet) Re: Ebay seller armee48 February 9 2005, 5:05 PM
Thanks for the help and advice everyone--I'll let you know where I go from here.
Foster S. Jeter
(Login fsjeter) Paypal will only February 9 2005, 5:26 PM
call this a dispute with the seller. They are good about doing chargebacks if the items are not received. You probably won't have much luck with Paypal in this instance but it never hurts to file a claim.
Scott
Todd (nolemmings)
(Login taslegal) sorry Leon February 9 2005, 5:55 PM
I misread your first post--my bad. And yes, the fake granite description is a good one. I would also add that the fakes/reprints are a little blurrier in the photo, although the authentic ones aren't exactly stunningly clear either.
Todd
dan mckee
(Login danmckee) Re: Ebay seller armee48 February 9 2005, 5:56 PM
Card is bad. If you paid with paypal and used a MASTERCARD or VISA. Return the POS with signature confirmation. Then stop payment through your CC. Paypal won't help you at all. as lond as he sent you something, they do not consider it fraud. You can buy a car and receive a brick in the mail and that is not fraud to paypal. If you used your CC, you will be refunded through that. Send the worthless POS back and get a signature. Or send it to me and I will deliver it in person as I am 15 minutes from Timonium MD. Dan.
warshawlaw
(Login boxingcardman) paypal protection is worthless February 9 2005, 6:34 PM
if you used a CC, return it and protest the charge. where is this dirtbag seller?
shellyjaffe
(Login shellyjaffe) Re: Ebay seller armee48 February 9 2005, 6:41 PM
No where in the discription does it say no refunds. Go to pay pal and start the dispute. In the dispute make him aware that you will be going to police for fraud. I think you will get a better responce.
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