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barrysloateTruth is the only thing about the cigar box and Hal's card that matches is the portrait of Wagner, and pictures were recycled forever. Even if the cigar box is ca. 1920, I would say if Hal knows for a fact that Eliott Street was the address for the company in the 1890's, then that is very compelling evidence that the card predates the cigar box by quite a bit. I'm not sure however, how PSA did their research. How many hours is PSA willing to spend to grade a single card? They did in fact tell me the had several people spend hours on my two cricket CdV's, and I was impressed by that. But I'm sure Hal delved into this much deeper. I think the relationship between the card and the cigar box is minimal at best and perhaps they are entirely unrelated timewise.