[rats60]

Originally Posted by Seven

It took Bonds and Clemens who, at their peaks, were destined to be in the upper echelon of the Hall, to inner circle Hall of Fame level of statistics. No excuses for them, but people forget how dominant they both were before PED usage.

For Clemens it's assumed he used in and after 1996. He came off his worse statistical season by most measures in 1995, and immediately became a Cy Young candidate again. From 1984-1995 he compiled 3 Cy Youngs, an MVP, 182-98 record with a 3.00 ERA and 73 WAR.

For Bonds it's assumed he started in late 1998. Counting just 1986-1997 Bonds put up a 91.8 WAR, 3 MVP's a slew of Gold Gloves, 374 Homers, 417 Stolen bases, 359 Doubles and 1227 Walks.

They were both good enough without the juice.

Assumed? So everyone in the 90s was using steroids except for Bonds and Clemens? It should be assumed that they were using much earlier. Bonds had an unnatural jump in power from 1990-92 to 93-94. How do you know he wasn't doping then?