[jupiter451]

Originally Posted by rats60

I am not a fan of WAR, but I did consider it. It is a counting stat, so it favors players who had long careers over those who may have been better, but played for fewer years. In the end, 14 of the top 15 are on my list with only Phil Niekro and his 24 years of pitching and omission. It also seems to favor pitchers with 8 of the top 20, but the last 5.

I also like run prevention for pitchers.
Niekro ERA+ 115
Perry ERA + 117
Carlton ERA+ 115
Roberts ERA+ 113
Jenkins ERA+ 115
vs
Gibson ERA+ 127
Koufax ERA+ 131
Ford ERA+ 133

WAR also hates catchers, for some reason, and first basemen, understandable. I would take Bench, Berra and Campanella with their 8 combined MVPs over the above 5 pitchers. I would love to fit Campy into the list, but he would fit better in the earlier years.

Robinson and Koufax had short careers, so they had less chance to accumulate WAR. Jackie still averaged 6.4 WAR per season over his 10 years. Give him his age 23-27 years instead of being banned because of the color of his skin and he is at 90+.

Koufax barely pitched his first two years. He would have been in the minors if not for the rule 5 draft. He also didn't pitch 200 innings until 7th (age 25) season. His last 6 years when he became a full time starter, he accumulated 46.6 WAR, an average of 7.8. If he doesn't retire after his age 30 season, who knows what he could have done.

Banks career total was killed by his move to 1b because of a knee injury. In 8 years as a SS + 10 games in 1953, 55.1 WAR, averaging almost 7 per season. His last 10 years as a 1b, 12.6 WAR. So those 3 guys didn't have high career totals, but they had very high peaks.

Great point about that WAR stat being cumulative. If you look at WAR/season, Jackie R. and Bench move way up the list. And for pitchers, I was surprised to find Hoyt Wilhelm with an amazing ERA+ of 147, way ahead of Koufax, Gibson, Seaver etc.