Quote:
Originally Posted by jupiter451
we all know war as a modern stat, but you can find the all-time career list here:
https://www.baseball-reference.com/l...r_career.shtml
the top 20 who have cards from your years 1954-1974 are:
5 willie mays+ (23) 156.1
7 henry aaron+ (23) 143.2
11 stan musial+ (22) 128.6
14 ted williams+ (19) 121.8
21 mickey mantle+ (18) 110.2
22 tom seaver+ (20) 109.9
23 frank robinson+ (21) 107.3
24 mike schmidt+ (18) 106.9
31 joe morgan+ (22) 100.6
32 warren spahn+ (21) 100.1
33 carl yastrzemski+ (23) 96.5
34 eddie mathews+ (17) 96
35 phil niekro+ (24) 95.9
37 roberto clemente+ (18) 94.9
42 al kaline+ (22) 92.7
45 steve carlton+ (24) 90.2
46 gaylord perry+ (22) 90
47 bob gibson+ (17) 89.1
50 robin roberts+ (19) 86.2
56 fergie jenkins+ (19) 84.1
interesting to see some names that are not all that hot in collecting, e.g.,
phil niekro
gaylord perry
robin roberts
fergie jenkins
others who don't seem to make the cut:
Koufax
bench
berra
j. Robinson
banks
rose |
I am not a fan of WAR, but I did consider it. It is a counting stat, so it favors players who had long careers over those who may have been better, but played for fewer years. In the end, 14 of the top 15 are on my list with only Phil Niekro and his 24 years of pitching and omission. It also seems to favor pitchers with 8 of the top 20, but the last 5.
I also like run prevention for pitchers.
Niekro ERA+ 115
Perry ERA + 117
Carlton ERA+ 115
Roberts ERA+ 113
Jenkins ERA+ 115
vs
Gibson ERA+ 127
Koufax ERA+ 131
Ford ERA+ 133
WAR also hates catchers, for some reason, and first basemen, understandable. I would take Bench, Berra and Campanella with their 8 combined MVPs over the above 5 pitchers. I would love to fit Campy into the list, but he would fit better in the earlier years.
Robinson and Koufax had short careers, so they had less chance to accumulate WAR. Jackie still averaged 6.4 WAR per season over his 10 years. Give him his age 23-27 years instead of being banned because of the color of his skin and he is at 90+.
Koufax barely pitched his first two years. He would have been in the minors if not for the rule 5 draft. He also didn't pitch 200 innings until 7th (age 25) season. His last 6 years when he became a full time starter, he accumulated 46.6 WAR, an average of 7.8. If he doesn't retire after his age 30 season, who knows what he could have done.
Banks career total was killed by his move to 1b because of a knee injury. In 8 years as a SS + 10 games in 1953, 55.1 WAR, averaging almost 7 per season. His last 10 years as a 1b, 12.6 WAR. So those 3 guys didn't have high career totals, but they had very high peaks.