[Rhotchkiss]

Of the 3 current threads on the main board, I used this thread because it discusses the date of the Reccius Wagner.

There are two key bits of information on the card:
The Address: 2608 Elliott Avenue
The Phone Number: 6807

Rob's initial post in this thread argues that the card could not be issued before 1903 because Louisville Directories do not show Henry Reccius being at 2608 Elliot Avenue until 1904. Rob's argument, which is based on the address is compelling.

However, to me, the phone number is just as important. The question is whether Louisville had 4-digit phone numbers before 1900 and/or when did 4-digit phone numbers starting with "6" begin in Lousiville?

I own a Louisville Directory from 1899 that I acquired on ebay. I looked through the entire thing. There are 4-digit phone numbers, but none that start with a number other than "1" and "2". Thus, based on this information, and coupled with the fact that Henry Reccius is at 2216 Eddy in the pre-1900 directories, I believe that the Reccius Wagner cannot be pre-1900. So when was it issued?

I called that Louisville archives and I spoke to a man for about an hour. He flipped through Louisville directories from 1900-1904 looking for a 4-digit phone number starting with a "6" or higher. He did not find any. In fact, if I recall accurately, "4" was the highest 4-digit number located. This fact, taken with the address information Rob provides (which I confirmed with the archives), makes me believe that the card could not have been issued before 1904.

But here is what bothers me: Why would Reccius issue a cigar of Wagner, in Louisville garb, years after Wagner left Louisville? Aside from the few years spent on the Louisville team in 1897-99, he had no ties to the city. Yes, Louisville players were sold to Pittsburgh in 1899, so maybe all the Louisville fans became Pittsburgh fans, but do you use a Pittsburgh player, in Louisville, years after the transaction to sell your wares? Plus, I doubt Louisville people really cared much for Pittsburgh or their players - did Browns fans become Ravens fans or Baltimore Colts fans become Indianapolis Colts fans? It seems odd to me that Reccius would use Wagner non-contemporaneously with his playing days in Lousville.

There are many other reasons, including the dating of the use of trade cards, the card stock, the poem on the back, the cost of the cigars, and of course PSA says its from 1897-99 (but we know PSA doesnt know squat), etc. that indicate the card could be issued before 1900.

Ultimately, I have serious doubts that the card is from before 1900, and I a believe it was issued no earlier than 1904 (and likely later). It is because of this doubt that I did not strongly pursue the card -- its an awfully expensive item to take a risk on. My last bid was somewhere around $300k.

Regarding the Goldin description -- I think they did a very good job walking the line between promoting their consignor's item and disclosing the issues and arguments. The bottom line is that PSA says its from 1897-1899. They could have said that and nothing more. But how many people really know the history of Wagner and the card. Plus a card of this magnitude needs a description.

My gut is that many felt like I did and held back because of the dating uncertainty. If the date could be proven inconclusively, someone would have done it by now. And if it could be proven that the card is from before 1900, and thus his actual rookie, I suspect it would be worth $3mm+++. The fact that it didnt go over $1mm, let alone hit its reserve, indicates that the market has its concerns and priced the item accordingly.