Quote:
Originally Posted by Hankphenom
No, I didn't miss your point, I just disagreed with it. Nowhere did I accuse you of denigrating Spahn, you made that up. But your intention in stating that "Spahn's consistency and longevity resulted in some incredible career numbers, but his 119 ERA+ is the same as Red Faber, Ron Guidry, Bobby Shantz and Bob Lemon, some very good pitchers, but not all-time greats" is unmistakable. I just disagree with you, that's all. Trying to turn his "consistency and longevity" into some kind of case against his inclusion with the all-time greats is laughable since those are among the prime criteria. Say what you will, he merits discussion in the same breath as those you name, IMO. As for why he doesn't get the hobby love to go with that, your guess is as good as mine. Small market, no flash, his schnoz, who knows? Maybe the hobby will catch up to his record one of these days. Just to try to wrap up this up, the guy had more wins and shutouts than any other lefty in baseball history. That alone should merit his inclusion with the elite few at the top, shouldn't it?
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Fair enough. I did not realize you want to put him in the same category as guys like Grove, Maddux etc. If so, we disagree. I see him as a tier lower than that. Still slam-dunk HOF and better than many pitchers in the Hall, but not on the short list (say top 10) best pitchers all-time.
Regarding, "denigrating"... I thought you were taking me to say that Spahn was a similar pitcher to Red Faber, Ron Guidry, Bobby Shantz and Bob Lemon, which I definitely was not meaning to say.