Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth
I think you are somewhat conflating "original" with "authentic." We may get into semantic knots on this one, but I think of original not as the opposite of counterfeit, but as a card without anything done to it. That's the sense I am using it in, anyhow. Now yeah all these things are slippery slopes and don't hold up at the far edges, I understand that. It's a Socratic method lover's dream. What if you flick something that's stuck to the surface off, what if you rub off a wax stain, blah blah blah.
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It's not just a Socratic exercise though or semantic slopes. The entire notion of "original" in the sense that you prefer is a moot construct. Every vintage card has been handled by oily grimy fingers. And even just the oils from our fingers do far more to "alter" (in the sense that many here are using the term) the original state of a card than water does. People get crud on their cards and they wipe it off. Greasy fingerprints change the state of a card. These facts are not merely semantics. You're free to pick and choose which changes from a card's original state you prefer to have in your collection, but it is rather silly, and arbitrary, to expect others to adhere to those same standards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth
Just curious btw, if you do these things yourself (and I acknowledge they are less concerning than the big three of trimming, recoloring and rebuilding), do you disclose, and if not why?
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If I clean a card, I do so in a manner that does not damage the card in any way. I have never once had a card that I cleaned get rejected for cleaning from any grading company because I don't use any methods that would damage or alter the card in any way. I consider an alteration to be the same things that PSA and SGC would consider an alteration. Things like trimming, recoloring, rebuilding corners, smashing card stock to press out creases, using harsh chemicals that damage the print and gloss or make the cards brittle, etc. Basically anything that damages a card or changes it from its original state, I would consider to be an alteration (and that even includes some things that the grading companies allow, but I personally do not).
I have damaged cards in the past and later resold them with full disclosure, highlighting the damage in both the title and in the description along with clear images in my listings.
If a card has been damaged or altered, I believe it should be disclosed. But if it has simply been cleaned in a manner that leaves nothing behind on the card and does not damage or alter the card stock in any way, then that's immaterial to the value of the card as it has no bearing on its market value. There is simply nothing to disclose in that case. It would be like disclosing that a truck had previously been farted in. The fart is gone now, so the market doesn't care. The card market cares about the present state of a card; its current condition, and whether a card has been damaged/altered (which are arguably interchangeable terms in this context). The market does not care if a card previously had something on it which is no longer there. You could take any card I've cleaned, crack it out of its slab, and resubmit it one hundred times and it's going to pass grading every time because what I do does not damage or alter them in any way. It is immaterial with respect to its market value. If there is nothing on the card or nothing missing from the card, then there is nothing there to disclose.
We should all care
far more about sellers and auction houses listing cards with creases that aren't visible in their scans and not disclosed in the listings than we should about a card that used to have something on it that is no longer there. Or if it used to have a bent-over corner that has been laid back down. I only care about a card's present state, and so does the market.
Also, this idea that the only reason people don't disclose something as simple as having gently cleaned a card is because they're being deceitful and want to defraud others is nonsense. That may be true of something like trimming or recoloring, but it's not true of something as benign as card cleaning. The reason they don't disclose it is because there is nothing to disclose. It's absolutely immaterial. And unlike me, most people have no interest in getting into discussions with delusional people online who wish to publicly crucify them if they don't see things their way. This is the real reason people choose not to disclose these sorts of things. It's just not worth the drama.