Quote:
Originally Posted by 3arod13
And Manny Ramirez?
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I say yes to Bonds and Clemens because you already have people in who used during their era. No one in their right mind thinks Ivan Rodriguez wasn't guilty. The man wouldn't even deny it himself, plus he showed more than anyone once testing kicked in and he came back to spring looking like a bobblehead. Plus he was called out by Canseco, plus he destroyed the games caught record while playing in the Texas heat and you don't think a drug that helps muscle recovery was involved? Yet he got in first ballot. Piazza admitted to using eight things that are illegal now in his book, conveniently none were steroids, yet he took everything else. Selig is in and he ran the era knowing what was going on. Baseball wasn't against it. Your favorite player was probably guilty of something, just like the guys from the 60s and 70s were all guilty of something that isn't allowed today.
I think you look at the era compared to itself and knock points off for it, such as McGwire. He's very fringe for me right now, but I wouldn't put him in due to knocking his stats to compensate for the drug use. Bonds and Clemens are an easy yes. I don't know how people vote for Andy Pettitte. He's very fringe with stats and flat out admitted doing steroids in two different years, yet he still gets votes to stay on the ballot.
I quote your question because this is where I draw the line. People who failed after testing started should not be allowed in, though I do have an asterisk that I would consider. That's a definite no for Ramirez because he failed multiple times.
The asterisk is Rafael Palmeiro. He failed, but I believe he was set up. The reason for that is very simple. He had everything he needed already. He had 3,000 hits, he had 500 homers, he announced he was retiring, he was playing on a team with no World Series hope near the end of the season. Who is just going to randomly do steroids in his position when he knows he's going to be tested? The answer is no one.
Palmeiro called out Miguel Tejada for what happened and then Tejada ends up getting caught with steroids and everything else to go with it.
As for Rose, I think he deserved a ban, but not lifetime. I'd put him in the HOF now. It's been long enough.
I also know I think different than other people about steroids. I see people willing to put in Todd Helton, who is a habitual drunk driver, yet they won't vote in Bonds or Clemens. Can you honestly tell me that a person doing steroids is worse than someone who is perfectly fine with taking the life of everyone on the road into his hands every time he drives his truck drunk, including the time he left the scene of an accident? If you think it is, you are probably a drunk driver yourself, so you're willing to defend it, and then I don't care about your worthless opinion.
Helton has no business being in the Hall of Fame, but of course he will go in next year because he got so close this year. Just remember one thing in case you have plans for Cooperstown in 2024. He's going to be on the road and celebrating that weekend...